Shooting to Reset a Bad Practice?

Originally posted by TunnelRat
I think there’s a difference between saying there’s a right and a wrong way to do a thing and pointing out that there might be more efficient ways to do a thing. You yourself have said that you could see how I might benefit from doing something and if so that’s great, so a reviewer or trainer pointing that out to others doesn’t seem unreasonable to me (and I have had techniques showed to me that did make meaningful differences in my comfort and performance).

There is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out or teaching a technique that might help some people shoot their particular pistol more efficiently. That being said, some of the trainers and reviewers I've seen hammer certain techniques to the point of being dogmatic. I've seen guns that didn't have trigger resets that a particular reviewer didn't like referred to as "garbage" because of this and I've seen trainers refer to grips and stances that weren't their preference as "worthless."

Originally posted by TunnelRat
Also, while you say there’s no wrong way to shoot a handgun, you added a lot of caveats. If there is no wrong way to shoot a handgun than complaining about the reset on a handgun isn’t necessarily wrong. It is wrong if you allow it to stop the reliable function (one of the caveats you mentioned), but if personal preference is a factor, and I completely agree that it is, then people will point out features they do or don’t like based on that personal preference. If someone doing that exposes a level of ignorance in your opinion I can understand that, but as related to before I also think people tend to take all of this a bit too personally, even when they then say it’s personal preference (I don’t mean you in particular).

The goal of shooting is to hit the target, I can think of no shooting technique in which a lack of safety, sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control would not be detrimental to this goal. Also, since we're talking primarily defensive shooting of training for such, reliable function of the pistol is also of utmost importance. I think that those four caveats still leave a lot of room for varying ideas and techniques.

As far as whether riding the reset is right, wrong, or a matter of personal preference really depends on the shooter and gun. If you can do it effectively without short-stroking the trigger on a gun that allows for it, then it's personal preference. If, however, you can't do it effectively and/or have a gun that doesn't allow it to be done consistently without inducing malfunction, then I'd say it's wrong.

As far as people who complain about the reset, I notice that the same people I notice complaining about trigger reset tend to shoot/own/review/teach with one particular type of gun or something similar to it (usually something of the polymer-frame, striker-fired persuasion) and they seem to view almost anything substantially different from that with disdain. Some people it seems assume that because the technique that works well with their firearm of preference doesn't work with something else, then that something else must be of substandard quality or poor design. I agree that people do often take their preferences in gun and shooting technique personally and that, I think, is why so many become dogmatic about things like trigger reset.
 
The goal of shooting is to hit the target, I can think of no shooting technique in which a lack of safety, sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control would not be detrimental to this goal. Also, since we're talking primarily defensive shooting of training for such, reliable function of the pistol is also of utmost importance. I think that those four caveats still leave a lot of room for varying ideas and techniques.

As far as whether riding the reset is right, wrong, or a matter of personal preference really depends on the shooter and gun. If you can do it effectively without short-stroking the trigger on a gun that allows for it, then it's personal preference. If, however, you can't do it effectively and/or have a gun that doesn't allow it to be done consistently without inducing malfunction, then I'd say it's wrong.

As far as people who complain about the reset, I notice that the same people I notice complaining about trigger reset tend to shoot/own/review/teach with one particular type of gun or something similar to it (usually something of the polymer-frame, striker-fired persuasion) and they seem to view almost anything substantially different from that with disdain. Some people it seems assume that because the technique that works well with their firearm of preference doesn't work with something else, then that something else must be of substandard quality or poor design. I agree that people do often take their preferences in gun and shooting technique personally and that, I think, is why so many become dogmatic about things like trigger reset.

To the first paragraph, I don’t see where I said those wouldn’t be detrimental to hitting a target. I’m aware of that fact. I’m also aware of the importance of reliability, nor do I see where anything I said is counter to that. I don’t disagree there is still room for varying ideas. My point in mentioning the caveats is that even in the realm of personal preference there are actions that can be taken that are detrimental to the proper usage of a firearm. I’m basically agreeing with you and extending that logic.

To the second paragraph, I explicitly mentioned the reliable function of gun. I would agree, and I don’t believe this is counter to what I’ve said above, that if you repeatedly short stroke a trigger then you as a shooter need to revise your technique if your plan is to continue using that firearm. My point has been and continues to be that someone not liking that they have to change their technique isn’t, imo, inherently wrong and neither is expressing as much in the context of a review.

To your last paragraph, while I agree people can be dogmatic about technique l, what I’m more talking is people being upset because a reviewer doesn’t review a firearm well and that happens to be a firearm the person in question likes. I see that very often, I’d say just as often if not moreso than anything to do with technique. If we can acknowledge that personal preference plays into choice of technique, then we should also be able to recognize that someone not liking a firearm can also be a matter of personal preference. What I have found is people get offended and then proceed to argue with the reviewer. I’m not saying all comments to a reviewer are unfounded, nor for that matter does it stop someone from posting those comments if they are unfounded, people are free to express themselves. But I see many people get personally attached to inanimate objects.


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I suppose, if one practiced enough with ONE gun learning the reset point might become "muscle memory" but I think, for me, that since I don't practice that (releasing to the reset and no further) is going to be the last thing on my mind in a defensive gun use.

It's been a couple of generations now, since I was intentionally shooting at anyone, and back then, I was on a belt fed. What I can recall was I was very "focused" on what I was shooting at, and the front sight.

I'm not trying to denigrate anyone's personal technique, always felt there is no "wrong" if you hit what you aim at.

That being said, some ways are better for some folks than others. Fortunately, I didn't notice any of the "gotta do it my way or you're gonna die Die DIE!" types in this thread, but they are out there, and those are the folks that irriitate me. I just try to point out the ups and downs as I see them, you decide what's right for you.
 
Originally posted by TunnelRat
To the first paragraph, I don’t see where I said those wouldn’t be detrimental to hitting a target. I’m aware of that fact. I’m also aware of the importance of reliability, nor do I see where anything I said is counter to that. I don’t disagree there is still room for varying ideas. My point in mentioning the caveats is that even in the realm of personal preference there are actions that can be taken that are detrimental to the proper usage of a firearm. I’m basically agreeing with you and extending that logic.

I was simply trying to explain the reason that I included those caveats. You pointed out that I included "a lot of caveats" in my original statement and I was simply trying to point out that even despite those caveats, I think my statement leaves a lot of room for variation between different techniques and personal preferences. We are in agreement insofar as that if a given technique inhibits someone's ability to hit their target while maintaining safety and reliable operation, then that technique is wrong for them. The only point I'm trying to make is that while a given technique might be wrong for one person, it isn't necessarily wrong for everyone. After all, we aren't Mandalorians and any given technique isn't necessarily the way :D

Originally posted by TunnelRat
To the second paragraph, I explicitly mentioned the reliable function of gun. I would agree, and I don’t believe this is counter to what I’ve said above, that if you repeatedly short stroke a trigger then you as a shooter need to revise your technique if your plan is to continue using that firearm. My point has been and continues to be that someone not liking that they have to change their technique isn’t, imo, inherently wrong and neither is expressing as much in the context of a review.

I agree, disliking a particular aspect of a gun and expressing that opinion isn't inherently wrong. What I take exception to is when a reviewer is so short-sighted to think that because a gun doesn't work for them and their chosen technique, then it couldn't possibly work well for anyone else. I, for example, don't particularly care for Glock pistols because, among other reasons, I find their grips to feel unnatural and be uncomfortable for me to shoot. I do not, however, opine that Glocks or their features are "garbage" or "poorly designed" rather that there are simply other guns that work better for me.

If a reviewer said something along the lines of "the trigger reset on this pistol was longer and/or less perceptible than I prefer" or "I experienced some short-stroking of the trigger because the trigger reset on this pistol is very different from what I'm accustomed to" I'd have no issue with it. However, I hear a lot of reviewers say things like "this gun's trigger reset is horrible" or "this gun is worthless because of the trigger reset." Besides being a bit hyperbolic, I don't think such statements give much of a frame of reference to the reader than thus limit the utility of the information in the review.

Originally posted by TunnelRat
To your last paragraph, while I agree people can be dogmatic about technique l, what I’m more talking is people being upset because a reviewer doesn’t review a firearm well and that happens to be a firearm the person in question likes. I see that very often, I’d say just as often if not moreso than anything to do with technique. If we can acknowledge that personal preference plays into choice of technique, then we should also be able to recognize that someone not liking a firearm can also be a matter of personal preference. What I have found is people get offended and then proceed to argue with the reviewer. I’m not saying all comments to a reviewer are unfounded, nor for that matter does it stop someone from posting those comments if they are unfounded, people are free to express themselves. But I see many people get personally attached to inanimate objects.

Oh how right you are. People get very personally invested in whatever their gun/car/fashion choice/etc. are. My point is that this personal bias and emotional attachment goes both ways. While I understand that personal bias and/or preference can never be completely eliminated from any review, when I watch or read a product review I expect the reviewer to at least attempt to make a reasonably objective assessment of the product.

Maybe it's because they're trying to gain attention by being "edgy" or maybe they're trying to avoid being labeled "shills" or "sellouts" but I seem to notice a lot of reviewers going out of their way to bash on features they don't like, honestly to the point of being a bit juvenile. If they don't like the trigger reset of a pistol, that's fine but at least describe why you don't like it or, better yet, compare it to one you do like so we have some frame of reference. Instead I too often see features that a reviewer doesn't like simply described with a colorful pejorative like "garbage" or "worthless" which, while making for a colorful review, isn't really all that helpful to someone seeking useful information.
 
When I encounter a reviewer such as you describe, I generally stop watching that reviewer after the first review (if not during the first review). My experience has been that while that element is certainly out there, there are quite a few that aren’t that way. It does take a bit more effort to find the more even-keeled reviewers as they’re often not as popular as some others.

At the same time, in addition to antagonistic reviewers I don’t understand the people that obviously doesn’t like a reviewer and will continue to watch/read that person’s content over and over, seemingly just to continuously tell that person they don’t like them. That seems pathological to me. I’m not sure if those people simply need an outlet for their anger or what, but it seems an exhausting way to live.


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There is more money in being an influencer on Youtube than there is from getting free guns to review.

You make money on youtube by having sponsored videos with number of followers.

There is no age restriction for views on youtube, or for gun forums. It's not by chance we're all randomly and independently familiar with the same reviewers. Flair benefits these types when you know there are no audience restrictions.
 
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It's not by chance we're all randomly and independently familiar with the same reviewers.

Believe it or not there are still a few of us around (though damn few I suppose) who aren't familiar with Utube and other internet reviewers, beyond hearing you folks talk about them.

Since I don't watch them, I don't give a rodent's posterior what they say, or how they deliver it, generally.

What I can tell you is that many of the currently "revered" gun writers of the golden age routinely made bombastic claims and several had ongoing long term feuds with each other. That was how you drew, and kept people's attention in the days of print on paper.

I don't see a whole lot different today, other than instead of being a magazine article, today its "mini-movies" that people can self produce and market.
 
He's the only one I watch, and not because I value his "reviews" - I just find him entertaining.

His son I find to be a moron, but that's just how he comes across to me.
 
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