Shooting the DA Revolver.

[MLeake]

g.willikers, you are the one who recently re-emphasized the pickup gun concept.

But fine, we can tack yet again if you prefer.

So, sticking to revolvers...

What if the pickup gun were one of my Rugers with an XS sight, when the shooter prefers a black Patridge?

Or what if it were one of my Smiths with a Patridge, when the shooter prefers a three-dot?

Or what if it were my 1917, with itty-bitty sights, when the shooter can't really make those out anymore?

(Edit: Worse yet, what if the shooter were only used to a bullseye sight picture, when NONE of my guns are regulated to that?)

What if the shooter were only used to swing-out cylinders, and he had to use an SAA type such as my Vaquero? Or he had to use a top-break, like an Iver Johnson or H&R?

What if the shooter were used to cocking and firing SA all the time, but had to use one of my DA only revolvers?

What if the shooter were used to S&W only, and now had to figure out in the heat of the moment how to open a Ruger (not too hard to figure out) or a Colt (a little less intuitive to a Smith or Ruger guy)?

(Edit: Forgot to mention, I have very long - around 9.2" long - hands, so the majority of my guns - to include revolvers - have either large grips or else grip adapters... what if the shooter had smaller hands? Especially with the reach on my DAO guns?)

Again, there are plenty of factors that would cause a lot more trouble, IMO, with an unfamiliar gun than would a slight change in trigger pull, even if we limit our selection to revolvers (ignoring your own IDPA swapping of guns, or picking up of a gun in extremis scenarios).

 

[Winchester_73]

Mandatory Limit reached

Sorry guys, we have reached the "4 page limit" with this thread. For a thread to be more than 4 pages, the subject must be one of the following:

1) 9mm vs 45
2) Glock vs 1911
3) Glock vs the world
4) Ruger vs S&W
5) My Taurus broke when I looked at it cock eyed - please help!

Since this thread is none of the above, it will now be closed...

CLOSED!

(crap, I don't have that privilege )

 

[tomrkba]

I became bored with the bickering and stopped reading the thread by page three.

First, there are few dedicated revolver classes available and fewer competent revolver instructors. Latch onto any good revolver coaches you can find! You may find some at ICORE and IPSC competitions.

You can buy better groups! A tuned trigger helps, but I limit all tuning on my revolvers to a "carry trigger job" for reliability. The most immediate improvement comes from a longer barrel. Properly fitted stocks will also improve scores and assist in managing recoil (see the Jordan Trooper stock from Herretts or similar). Finally, fix the sights. Get something with white/Tritium or gold on it. Seeing the sight against the target tightens groups up! I shoot my S&W TRR8 with 5" barrel and brass front sight far more accurately than my 625 with 4" barrel and all my snubs. The long barrel really does make a difference.

Review The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver by Grant Cunningham. It contains some trigger and recoil control tricks that may help you perform at a higher level.

Become a master at trigger control. You will have to dry fire frequently to get the hang of it. You must verify your work frequently or you will accidentally introduce flaws into your technique (ask me how I know). There is no substitute to PLANNED range time since the other parts of the equation are grip, sight picture and recoil. It is very important that you plan each trip to practice specific skills and correct errors.

I found that shooting 22 LR does NOT directly translate into accurate centerfire shooting. Shooting 22 LR provides a good amount of trigger control practice, but does not impart a high level of skill in recoil control. Centerfire is almost a completely different game with medium to full power loads. Shoot frequently and in volume.

Shooting at speed requires a high level of dedication. I cannot do it with centerfire revolvers using medium or heavier loads, but am working on it as ammunition becomes available. You should push yourself, but not beyond the limits of control. Otherwise, you have lost that training time.

 

[UncleEd]

tomrkba, I was the first poster after the OP and I suggested
Grant Cunningham's Book of the Revolver.

Now we've come full circle.

Ooops, I've dropped my gun. Can anyone pick it up and use it like a champ?

 

[g.willikers]

Sorry, didn't mean to stop the conversation.
But the staff here has a tendency to lock threads that wander off the subject.
And this section is supposed to be revolvers.
Maybe, if there's interest, we could start something similar in the tactics and training section and not have to worry about it.

How about this:
We need to start practicing with a five shot revolver, no sights at all, and if the trigger and action aren't suitably stiff, leave the gun in a bucket of water for a couple of days to get it just right.
And maybe bury it afterwards in the dirt for a time, too.
That ought to make it the prefect practice revolver and then we'll be ready for anything.
And I have the perfect candidate.
It's almost that bad already.
And since the OP was purposefully labled for DA revolvers, no messing around with sixguns.

 

[Sport45]

What if the gun is a pickup, off the floor, after a failed previous attempt to save the day?
Or one just dropped by one of the bad guys.
And it's just a regular old rusty and neglected .38?
If all you've been shooting is the fancy gunsmithed version, could you do well with the pickup?

If the bad guy is so far a way that the trigger pull really makes a difference then there may well be better options than picking up a strange gun to return fire. Up close and personal I imagine I'd do okay with any gun I could figure out how to fire.

A strange revolver is pretty much the quickest gun to figure out with no safety levers or anything else to manipulate before firing.

 

[newfrontier45]

I found that shooting 22 LR does NOT directly translate into accurate centerfire shooting. Shooting 22 LR provides a good amount of trigger control practice, but does not impart a high level of skill in recoil control. Centerfire is almost a completely different game with medium to full power loads. Shoot frequently and in volume.

I've found the opposite to be true. Recoil is a single factor among several. All the important things happen before recoil and all those things can be honed with a .22.

We need to start practicing with a five shot revolver, no sights at all, and if the trigger and action aren't suitably stiff, leave the gun in a bucket of water for a couple of days to get it just right.
And maybe bury it afterwards in the dirt for a time, too.

Let us know how that works out for you.

And since the OP was purposefully labeled for DA revolvers, no messing around with sixguns.

The two terms are interchangeable.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Recoil is a single factor among several. All the important things happen before recoil and all those things can be honed with a .22.

I think that's an important point. And I'm not really sure why it's very often misinterpreted.

From 22 short to 500 Magnum, getting the bullet down range and all the things associated with it happen BEFORE the recoil. Recoil can't make the shot any less accurate. There's only two times recoil can be a factor in accuracy -

1) If you flinch in anticipation
2) Re-acquiring the target for follow up shots

But as newfrontier45 states, there's a whole lot of other factors involved in sending bullets downrange. All of them can be practiced with a 22 or any other gun, light or heavy recoil.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[dahermit]

From 22 short to 500 Magnum, getting the bullet down range and all the things associated with it happen BEFORE the recoil. Recoil can't make the shot any less accurate. There's only two times recoil can be a factor in accuracy -

1) If you flinch in anticipation
2) Re-acquiring the target for follow up shots

This seems to ignore the fact that flinch comes before the bullet exits the barrel and with a gun that hurts to fire, flinch is almost a certainty. So recoil is the indirect cause of flinch which makes shooting less accurate.

 

[MrBorland]

Lordy, are you being argumentative.

newfrontier45 & SgtLumpy's point is that shootin's shootin'. The fundamentals are the same and the only thing that really matters, so they universally apply. A flinch certainly isn't a given, and if it is, it's a problem the shooter needs to address.

Over and out...

 

[dahermit]

"...newfrontier45 & SgtLumpy's point is that shootin's shootin'..." Now I understand perfectly. Nothing could be more clear. "...shootin's shootin'...", do you mind if I write that down?

 

[g.willikers]

Of all the .22 handguns, the DA revolver would be seem to be the most effective practice tool.
The grip and control necessary for effective DA use and accuracy is the same as for recoil control, isn't it?
I've found that even a DA revolver pellet gun is effective practice, for the same reason.

 

[AID_Admin]

Right or wrong I just got myself a Model 17 to combat a high cost of ammo for my Model 66. I even bought same style grips to make both guns as identical as possible. I am 100% sure my accuracy with 66 will improve after using 17 for a while. Even if it's all in my head, there will still be positive results I am sure..

 

[SgtLumpy]

This seems to ignore the fact that flinch comes before the bullet exits the barrel

If I was "ignoring" that, I wouldn't have made it my first point.

I've seen people flinch on empty cylinders. Surely those shooters are going to flinch with whatever caliber they use.

If you flinch, fix it. Fix it by learning NOT to flinch. If you need a big gun to help you do that, then use a big gun. Then once you get past that, get down to the basics of everything else that affects your target accuracy. And shoot a few hundred thousand rounds.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[SgtLumpy]

I just got myself a Model 17 to combat a high cost of ammo for my Model 66.

Exactly what I did. I got a 4" K22 to match my 66.

And I've got three bricks of widdle biddy booleets to feed it..


Sgt Lumpy