Shooting the DA Revolver.

Ok, you contrarians, I just checked the trigger on an old .38, that usually accompanies me to the range.
The thought never occurred to me to ever check it before.
It's always been a good shooter.
The DA trigger breaks at a consistent and smooth 12 lbs.
Yikes!
And here I was thinking it was a good shooting gun.
Dang, now it's gotta' go into the trash.
 
Jerry Miculek may very well shoot box-stock guns.

However, I was told by the staff that when he would visit a gun shop near where I worked, some years back, he would give impromptu clinics on how to tune S&W triggers.
 
My 629 tuned by Bob Munden goes 8lbs DA and 3lbs SA. My model 18 goes 7½lbs DA and 3lbs SA. The rest are either untuned or done so by a factory gunsmith and as such, are not as smooth as those two. Guess which ones are easier to shoot accurately?

Imagine what a 33% reduction in DA pull weight, in addition to smoothing any roughness will do for your shooting.
 
g.willikers said:
The point I was making is that a anyone who understands how to use a revolver is not at a disadvantage with a dead stock one.
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Couple o' points. First, I'm not being contrarian. I was happy to see this thread started, and I've agreed one can't buy proficiency, and it's trigger time that really matters. I've always been adamant about this.

Second, one isn't born understanding how to use a revolver. There's a learning curve. One who's far along on that curve can do ok with a stock trigger, but for those just starting out, it's an unnecessary hinderance. One gains proficiency quickest when their equipment isn't holding them back. There's no virtue, IMO, insisting on being a "purist" while you're learning or competing. You can show the world your skills with whatever tool you like, but learn and compete on equipment that performs.

Finally, depending on the application, one certainly can be at at disadvantage with a dead stock revolver. Bullseye, Bianchi Cup, USPSA, ICORE, IDPA all come to mind. A master in any of those disciplines can certainly impress the general public with a stock revolver, but in competition against their peers, the margins are mighty thin. Ask them if they wouldn't mind shooting your bone stock revolver at the next national championship. ;)
 
MLeake said:
Jerry Miculek may very well shoot box-stock guns.

However, I was told by the staff that when he would visit a gun shop near where I worked, some years back, he would give impromptu clinics on how to tune S&W triggers.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say he shoots box-stock guns. I was clear he tunes his actions, but he doesn't lighten the action. An action job may or may not include lighter springs. Seems to be some confusion about that.
 
Ok, now I'll be the contrarian.
Who do you think would have the highest score.
One of us duffers using Miculek's revolver or him using a dead stock one?
 
Jerry Miculek is a wonderfully gifted shooter...
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A "gift" implies someone was given something. Jerry Mic is good at his craft because he practiced and became good. Same as any virtuoso musician, watchmaker, seamstress, athlete. Train, practice, practice, practice, get good.

ANYONE can become a virtuoso. Most don't. But the thing that keeps me from looking like Arnold or you from shooting as fast as Jerry is not some chromosome or something they were "given". It's something they worked at really, really hard.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Question to those who have very light DAs, as described 8 pounds or so:
In speed shooting have you ever short stroked the trigger because it's so light that you jammed the critter?

In a Jerry Miculek DVD, he does a little work on a Model 10. He advises that for duty, stay with the stock Smith springs but for competition, showmanship go ahead and use lighter springs.

He also advises that Federal primers be used as they are the softest compared to other brands after you've lightened the springs. The Federal primer advice is the same often expressed by the Cowboy Action Shooters.

Miculek says that for duty ammunition, you never know what issue ammo you might be getting and you need the extra assurance you get from the way Smith designed the actions in the first place.

OK, now I'll let out a little secret---I taught Jerry Miculek everything he knows.:p
 
Here's a suggestion.......

..... for those that can't hold the front sight on target while pulling through an 8 lb DA trigger:

Get an 1895 Nagant revolver, and dry fire that puppy daily. That will tone up your bang switch muscles!

After pulling through THAT, 8 lbs. will seem like 3.
 
UncleEd said:
In speed shooting have you ever short stroked the trigger because it's so light that you jammed the critter?
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Yes, but it's a technique issue that stems from the bad habit of letting the trigger push your finger back to the full reset position. Most likely have the bad habit, but aren't aware of it until they shoot a lighter action.

If you've got power to spare in your trigger finger, you're in a good position, as you can stick with a stout return spring, letting it help your finger return, while still managing to pull sub 0.2sec splits. Fortunately, it's really not übersplits that win matches.


UncleEd said:
He also advises that Federal primers be used as they are the softest compared to other brands after you've lightened the springs.
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JM didn't discover this. Federal primers have long been considered "standard issue" in competitive circles. Some highly tuned guns are referred to as "Federal only".
 
With the cylinder loaded with snap caps

We used to put coins on the top strap of the revolver, extend our arm to full length and aim at a stationary target and work the trigger in the DA mode. We kept the sights on the target and the coin on the top strap.
 
Just to clarify: I didn't say he shoots box-stock guns. I was clear he tunes his actions, but he doesn't lighten the action. An action job may or may not include lighter springs. Seems to be some confusion about that.
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He states that S&W double actions "...have the fastest trigger returns of any revolver...", something that is important in speed shooting. This suggests that he does not replace the rebound spring. However, I doubt that he does not perform other trigger-lightening techniques. I seem to remember in his "Shop Manual" about S&W double-actions, that he clips two coils off the cylinder release spring so it puts less pressure on the tip of the ejector rod which in turn allows for less pressure on the trigger in double-action. Therefore, I believe that "tuning" his action is also "lightening" his action albeit, not the rebound spring.
 
I believe JM uses a light hammer spring but leaves the rebound spring alone because with a lighter rebound spring it is easier to short stroke the trigger. The Federal primers aren't needed with a standard hammer spring. The lighter d/a pull makes a world of difference.
 
A "gift" implies someone was given something. Jerry Mic is good at his craft because he practiced and became good. Same as any virtuoso musician, watchmaker, seamstress, athlete. Train, practice, practice, practice, get good.
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I don't believe this for a minute and no, I never implied that Jerry got where he is without hard work. But he does have natural talent, as does anyone who was ever "great" at anything. Any dedicated shooter (musician, athlete or whatever) can become "good" with hard work. Lots of people work hard at their craft all their lives and never become any better than "good". The "great" ones not only have a good work ethic, focus, determination and attitude but I believe they also have a talent that comes very naturally.

However, this is silly and tangent to the discussion.
 
His idea is probably close to reality, or else every kid with a great work ethic could play linebacker in the NFL, or violin with the London Philharmonic.

Greatness typically requires work, but also mental and/or physical gifts.

Note, too, that NFL players typically don't buy their shoes at Foot Locker, and major concert violinists don't usually perform with violins purchased at school supply stores.

The shoes don't make the player great, nor does the violin make the violinist great; but great ones can perform better with, and get more out of, top-notch tools.
 
...or else every kid with a great work ethic could play linebacker in the NFL, or violin with the London Philharmonic.
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It is a little tangent, but the topix is "shooting a DA revolver"... I truly believe that wanting and working hard enough will get you anything. Ain't no "gun shooting chromosome" or "NFL chromosome". We're all born ugly and wet.

I hear the "natural born talent" excuse all the time from musicians who simply don't work hard enough to get good. Every virtuoso at every skill or craft has exactly the same things to overcome that the rest of us do.

There aren't any expert pistoleros who simply picked up the gun and fired a few dozen rounds and was suddenly recognized as expert.


Sgt Lumpy
 
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The secret of DA shooting is extremely difficult to learn:

1. Concentrate on the sights.

2. Squeeze trigger.

After mastering those complex basics, you can go on to point shooting where the instructions become even more complicated.

1. Concentrate on where the gun is pointing.

2. Squeeze trigger.

Jim
 
On every one of his videos at his web site, Miculek says:
If you want to get to the next level, be the first one at the range and the last one to leave.
Kind of says it all doesn't it, straight from the man himself.
 
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