Shooting the DA Revolver.

g.willikers

New member
Shooting the double action revolver.

There seems to be a steady stream of requests, in this section, for how to reduce the trigger pull of double action revolvers.
The usual reply involves changing springs, stoning and smoothing parts, recommendations for gunsmiths, 'etc.
But not much in the way of actually learning how to shoot a double action revolver.
There are specific techniques for doing so.
Is this, yet, another example of hoping equipment can be a substitute for skill?
And what if the gun that's available isn't the nifty one with the seven pound DA trigger, the high end sights and the custom fit grips?
What if the gun is a pickup, off the floor, after a failed previous attempt to save the day?
Or one just dropped by one of the bad guys.
And it's just a regular old rusty and neglected .38?
If all you've been shooting is the fancy gunsmithed version, could you do well with the pickup?
Might be worth a thought.
 
For starters if you're a total newbie get Grant Cunningham's "Book of the Revolver."

And if you're not a total newbie but fairly accomplished, get the book any way.
I know I learned a few things.
 
Thank you for starting this topic! Being fairly new target shooter I would love to hear different double action techniques even with a good gun. Any information will be helpful.
 
Is this, yet, another example of hoping equipment can be a substitute for skill?
Or just folks not wanting to make do with gritty factory actions, heavy springs and creepy triggers.


If all you've been shooting is the fancy gunsmithed version, could you do well with the pickup?
Is this really even worth discussing?


I think some people have been so accustomed to settling for terrible factory actions and triggers that they think those who are committed enough to have their guns professionally tuned have lace on their drawers. The truth is quite the opposite.
 
Very good concept for a topic.

And for what it's worth, I've never fired a S&W revolver, straight out of the box or otherwise, that had "gritty factory actions, heavy springs and creepy triggers". Taurus and Rossi, I have. But no Smiths.


Sgt Lumpy
 
No matter the trigger, you'll only gain proficiency through actual practice; particularly true with the DA trigger.

A nice trigger is a very nice thing, though, and it's a rare gun (S&Ws of all ages included) that can't be improved with a good action job.

And a good trigger actually helps develop proper technique: One can get good with a rough, gritty, stackey trigger by compensating, but the latter can also hardwire bad habits in the process.
 
Maybe not what you want to hear but I just slow down and make each DA shot deliberate as I concentrate on the sight and trigger. I will never win a speed contest but then I won't often have to reload and shoot whatever I was shooting at 6 more times because I do it right the first time.

The only really fast revolver shooter I know is a preacher buddy shooting an old S&W that is smooth from thousands of repetitions. He can draw and empty his gun into the target at 5 yards before I can get my second shot off. On the other hand trying to hit anything at double that distance and he is way out of his comfort zone. The question is what is your purpose, fast shooting or hitting the target.

My latest SA/DA drill with my S$W 41 mag. No prize winner but for a fairly heavy trigger pull it's good enough for me.



 
There seems to be a steady stream of requests, in this section, for how to reduce the trigger pull of double action revolvers.
The usual reply involves changing springs, stoning and smoothing parts, recommendations for gunsmiths, 'etc.
But not much in the way of actually learning how to shoot a double action revolver.
Firstly, the double action trigger pulls as shipped by the factory are unnecessarily heavy, therefore can be improved very much with work. Secondly, if a shooter of a double action is interested in a light double-action trigger pull, they must be interested in shooting it double action...many D.A. owners just shoot them single action because they think that they cannot master the double-action trigger. If the double action trigger is light enough, they may be more inclined to use/practice with it in that mode. Thirdly, I have had some guns pretty bad double action triggers. For instance, I recently bought an old Colt Police Positive that had a trigger so heavy it was nearly impossible to shoot with any degree of accuracy. So, in some cases it may not be accurate to jump to the conclusion that a person who wants a light double-action pull is not just avoiding learning how to shoot double action...it is all I do with double action revolvers. It is noteworthy that most of the famous shooters had their double-actions tuned for a lighter trigger pull, including Jerry Micklick, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, etc. and they were not seen as people who avoided acquiring shooting skills.
 
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I did a lot of practice with double action. It's not as easy shooting in double action but if you can master that type of trigger, all other pistols become much easier to shoot. One of my biggest tips is to place a quarter on top of the gun receiver and while firing, it shouldn't move or fall off. Anticipation of recoil is another, and I'd say it's best putting bullets randomly into the cylinder. When you fire on an empty one, you should not be jerking.
 
Yeah, but guys like Miculek, and the other really good revolver shootists, can (could) also shoot regular out of the box guns like the experts they are (were).
They really don't (didn't) need no stinkin' gunsmithed revolvers to impress.
 
dahermit said:
It is noteworthy that most of the famous shooters had their double-actions tuned for a lighter trigger pull, including Jerry Micklick, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, etc.

Not sure where you got this "fact", but it's well known that while Jerry Miculek smooths his actions, he doesn't lighten the pull. Ed McGivern, even faster than Jerry, was known to shoot stock S&Ws.

g.willikers said:
But not much in the way of actually learning how to shoot a double action revolver.

And when "advice" does come, it's simply in the form of a Miculek video link. :rolleyes:

JM's way isn't the only way, and there's no guarantee his way will work for you. I wholly endorse being a student of the revolver, but 1) it involves much more than clicking on a JM link, and 2) there's still no substitute for one's own trigger time.
 
Anybody will shoot better with a tuned revolver. Amateur, professional or maestro. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never had one tuned and is just making excuses not to.


JM's way isn't the only way, and there's no guarantee his way will work for you. I wholly endorse being a student of the revolver, but 1) it involves much more than clicking on a JM link, and 2) there's still no substitute for one's own trigger time.
Yep!
 
It is always nice to have a gun that you shoot well, that may not be the way it works out. There has been some nice revolvers pass through my hands, and it was easier to shoot tight groups and good targets with them. However if all I had was a beat up 38 sp I would use it.

You can not buy ability with money alone, a lot of practice and work is required. If you learn to shoot a double action revolver well, any descant one will work, you don't have to shoot 1" groups in a fight. :cool:
 
but it's well known that while Jerry Miculek smooths his actions, he doesn't lighten the pull.

I just got done watching a YouTube where Jerry says the DBL action trigger on the revolver he's demonstrating is "A pound and a half".


Sgt Lumpy
 
The last two S&W pistols I purchased had awful triggers. In fact, the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan that I have has a better factory trigger than either of the Smiths.

The XVR 460 maxed out my trigger pull gauge at over 13 lbs. double action, and the single action was about 10 lbs. Frankly, that makes the gun nearly useless for DA shooting because you have to pull so hard it's a fight to keep it on target.

On this particular pistol, the gunsmith got it down to 5.5 pounds single action and 9 pounds double action. Useable, and I'm sure the action with smooth up some as it is shot more and the MIM parts get polished.

I also purchased a new JM 625 in March. The SA trigger was 7.5 lbs, with the DA at 10.3 lbs. Again, nearly useless for its intended use - revolver action pistol where you shoot everything DA. After changing springs and some other work, the trigger is usable for competition with 4.5 lb SA and 6.5lb DA.

Now, just for comparison, I recently found a like new model 629 manufactured in 1981. The DA is 7 lbs and the SA is 5 lbs. If Smith still made guns like this one, you would not have to do much to it at all.

I also have a 1982 M57 that has a 2.5 lb SA and 4 lb DA after some gunsmith work; and a 1984 M624 worked for carry use with a 5 LB DA and 2.5 lb SA trigger.

Unfortunately, the new Smith actions with MIM parts cannot be tuned as well as the older actions.

Given the choice between a gun with a tuned trigger and a poorly tuned factory trigger, and I cannot understand why anyone would choose to use a gun with an inferior trigger action.
 
SgtLumpy said:
I just got done watching a YouTube where Jerry says the DBL action trigger on the revolver he's demonstrating is "A pound and a half".

Right now, radically-tuned race DA revolvers with radically-bobbed hammers, tuned by the good revolversmiths can have DA triggers as low as 5 to 5-1/2 pounds. If you've got a link to that vid, I'd like to see it, but my suspicion is that he's referring to the single action trigger. Nonetheless, Jerry claims he actually runs heavier-than-stock springs.
 
[Jerry Mic's low trigger pull weight]

It was one of the 5 part series -
"Jerry Miculek - S&W Demo - Parte 1"
(or parte 2-3-4 or 5).
Odd spelling of "parte" intentional.

I believe the gun was either a 317 or a 64.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Practice makes perfect, no doubt.
But ya' gotta' know what to practice.
A link to a web site that offers the info is painless and easy enough.
Not too many people are going to go to an actual training facility.
Folks have to begin somewhere.

The point I was making is that a anyone who understands how to use a revolver is not at a disadvantage with a dead stock one.
Or even a not very good one.
I had the opportunity to attend a Miculek exhibition once.
He arrived at the range with a truck full of S&W handguns, both revolvers and autos.
After his demonstrations, which were amazing of course, he invited the audience to try out some of the guns.
As far as I could tell, the few that I tried were stock out of the box.
And he was just as impressive with these as the ones he uses for competition.
 
The point I was making is that a anyone who understands how to use a revolver is not at a disadvantage with a dead stock one.
And this is pure nonsense. About akin to benchrest shooters using 5lb factory triggers. All the skill in the world cannot overcome a rough action or a heavy trigger. A good shooter can learn to work with these shortcomings but they are shortcomings nonetheless. Shortcomings that if rectified, WILL result in better shooting. I'm sorry but your whole assessment is just wrong and to me, it smells like you're trying to justify NOT having your guns tuned.

Jerry Miculek is a wonderfully gifted shooter but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Just because he 'may' (not convinced) get away with box-stock guns (remember, he is sponsored by S&W) does not mean that tuning is unnecessary. For him or the rest of us.
 
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