Shooting on own land! Should one feel guilty?

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have you considered putting up a berm or a wall paralel to your shooting area and their property to deflect the sound, kind of like the interstate noise barriers. I also remember seeing a documentary from switzerland and thier yearly qualifications. they were prone shooting through a 3' by about a 6' corrigated tube that captured and dissipated most of the muzzle blast and noise, think really really large silencer. it might not eliminate all the noise issues, but it would probably help a good bit.
 
phillip69 said:
thank you thallub.

NRA also shows you must have THOUSANDS OF FEET behind the backstop! Or else pass the "NO BLUE SKY" rule that says there is NO WAY a bullet can go past the backstop as it is all enclosed with no sky showing.

So these posts about shooting ranges at home on 1,2,3,4,5, EVEN 10 ACRES ARE PURELY NOT POSSIBLY SAFE! Now, if one wants to move to the country and buy 5 acres and then PAY rent to their neighbor for the 3-6 thousand feet beyond their backstop on their property, that is ok.

I really think WE need to police this better: I believe that includes not letting posts appearing that ok home ranges on less than 10 acres go unchallenged unless special circumstances make it safe.
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You realize that the real world is not the hypothetical world that you've created out of thin air... Right?

There are so many variables and different conditions that you ignore, all your theories and math are meaningless.

We routinely shoot at my father's house. His property is about 1 acre. We shoot handguns, rifles and shotguns. He lives in a development with houses no more than 30 yards apart. Behind the development, though, is a giant hill with nothing on it, nothing but woods. It's not unsafe to shoot there.

We routinely shoot at my dad's camp, which is only 11 acres. It's surrounded by nothing but woods for literally miles. It's perfectly safe to shoot there.

Untold other examples could be used. Your theory only holds in it's own theoretical world.
 
Brian Pfleuger

You realize that the real world is not the hypothetical world that you've created out of thin air... Right?

There are so many variables and different conditions that you ignore, all your theories and math are meaningless.

We routinely shoot at my father's house. His property is about 1 acre. We shoot handguns, rifles and shotguns. He lives in a development with houses no more than 30 yards apart. Behind the development, though, is a giant hill with nothing on it, nothing but woods. It's not unsafe to shoot there.

We routinely shoot at my dad's camp, which is only 11 acres. It's surrounded by nothing but woods for literally miles. It's perfectly safe to shoot there.

Untold other examples could be used. Your theory only holds in it's own theoretical world.
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Brian, this proves my points exactly! Theory? Please reread what I wrote. Your dad has 1 acre, so his property is approximately a square 208 ft by 208 ft.

Brian PLEASE open your mind to "theory" enough to answer truthfully: how far do your bullets go? If you need, I will be happy to post NRA data showing the answer is 1-2-3 miles.

The camp is 11 acres, surrounded by woods: Brian, WHO owns those woods? Why in the world do you believe YOU have the right to use THOSE PEOPLE'S property for your bullet backstop? It is a shame you may kill someone hiking in those woods, and not even understand your fault.

SO YOU READILY ADMIT YOU SHOOT INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY in 2 separate locations WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION?

Said another way, how can you possibly call this SAFE when you shoot into a hill on SOMEONE ELSE'S property? Do you call them before each shooting session and get permission to do so? To be sure the owners will not be using THEIR property while YOU are shooting? If so, you could have stated that - but you did not, so I am quite sure you do not. Therefore someone else is in danger of YOUR bullets hitting them.

What part of this don't you understand Brian? You can pretend you don't understand ballistics, you can pretend you don't understand simple math, but the fact is you are doing wrong and potentially can give us law abiding shooters a bad name!

Please stop shooting at both those locations immediately before someone gets hurt.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO POLICE OURSELVES BETTER! We must STOP this kind of reckless and dangerous action!
 
What world do you live in with unstoppable bullets?

We shoot over 200 yards on my father's camp property and that still leaves several acres of trees between us and the neighbors land. At his house, we shoot up to 90 yards and the backstop is a HUGE hill hundreds of feet high at least 20 feet (height) of which belongs to him. Besides which, the owner of the hill knows we shoot there and the owners before him knew too. Neither of them has ever expressed the least bit of concern or any sentiment on the idea whatsoever.

If you think anyone follows the "rules" that you set forth in that post, you're in a fantasy world.

What we do is not reckless or dangerous. Never has been, never will be. It's also repeated by countless millions of others all over America, every day, and has been for decades.

I've never heard such ridiculous restrictions such as you suggest, until just now in your post, and that includes being a member of this forum for over 7 years.
 
I have no backstop behind my 250-yard target, aside from acres and acres of brush/woods. A bullet is not going far at all through a hedge thicket. At 100 yards, I use a big block of wood to shoot into. It takes several years of shooting/weathering for a big chunk to break down to the point it lets a bullet through. At 400 yards, I have a pile of wood. Wood works wonders, and it's free and readily available.
 
Brian, you reply first your dad's 1 acre 'has a hill behind it," now right it is on his property and then not on his property. OK whatever - just shows my point. I am not a lawyer, but if you indeed have permission from the other owners to shoot into their property like that I would strongly suggest for your dad's protection to get that in writing from those owners before you shoot again so he has at least some protection in a court of law.

I am sorry you have never seen range design criteria before today Brian.

Here are some sources that back my fairlyland facts:

http://rangereport.org/

In particular, Mr. Vargas range design paper has much detail.

http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/des...anges-these-are-not-pics-story-will-find-post

http://www.hss.energy.gov/
search for their document "Range_Design_Criteria.pdf"

http://www.saps.gov.za/crime_prevention/firearms/forms/sabsstd.pdf

another Vargas paper (his is the main design I understand for the definitive book by NRA on range design you can buy):

www.nssf.org/ranges/rangeresources/library/NSRS/.../RangeDesign.pdf


Please for all the rest of us who shoot legally on our country property, stop shooting at your dad's.
 
I've shot in an indoor shooting range that was about 35 yards from one wall to the other. I know how far my bullet can go. I also know how far my bullet was capable of going in that range. About 30 yards from where I was standing. The point is, the landscape has a big impact on where the bullet makes its impact. You don't need thousands of acres to shoot safely. If you did, backyard shooting wouldn't be possible for almost anybody.

Even if you own everything for miles in front of you, you can't know when somebody might be trespassing downrange. In my opinion, using distance as a backstop is more dangerous than using a backstop as a backstop.

Edited for skipped words and spelling errors.
 
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I didn't say I've never seen range design criteria. I said I've never seen the suggestion that everyone who discharges a firearm must abide by that range design criteria.

I'm curious... are you a hunter? If so, when you set up a stand or hunting location, do you also set up NRA sanctioned backstops behind the area where you expect the quarry to appear and do you pass up any shots without said NRA sanctioned backstop?

Range design isn't your fairy tale. Believing that the only safe way to discharge a firearm is at a sanctioned range that meets that criteria is your fairy tale.

I follow every single law regarding firearms discharges and if you will not imply that I don't.
 
For the OP, I'd just politely inform them that you're shooting on your land, but that it's always directed away from their house and into a proper bullet stop. Don't give them a yes/no option, but rather just be polite and give them nothing to worry about.

As long as you're not blasting with a .50BMG or something that will literally go miles, they shouldn't have anything to worry about. And if they do, well that's their problem.

We have another smaller ranch which is about 350 acres that abates a highway and a small town, but I shoot unsuppressed full-auto there rather regularly without any issues.

And there's a plus side to shooting out on your land, in that if people are constantly hearing gunfire emanating from somewhere, they're not very likely to trespass, poach nor want to steal things from you.
 
Beretta686 said:
For the OP,

And there's a plus side to shooting out on your land, in that if people are constantly hearing gunfire emanating from somewhere, they're not very likely to trespass, poach nor want to steal things from you.
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Or that you may have alot of firearms to steal when your gone. ?
I have many hills as backstops on my land, but I'm still carefully of where the range of each round could go.
I can remember hunting with my dad when young in the woods on public hunting land. Someone(s) had set up a target range and I guess thought the woods was a good back stop. It's not fun hearing bullets ricochet through the trees around you. :(
 
I can finally say that I actually agree with you on this one Brian. And the indoor gun range - funny yet very true.
 
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Maybe it's just about knowing the capability's/limits of the round your shooting and using common sense to avoid mishaps.

As a kid, up through my teenage years, I was (willingly)dragged to ranges all over the country watching dad shoot competitively. Most shoots were LE sanctioned. Some held pistol only while others held a combo of pistol, rifle and shotgun events.

Some of the events were held at very nice ranges that would no doubt meet the requirements set forth by NRA or military standards. Hell, a couple of the pistol matchs were held in underground ranges exceeding NRA's requirements.

Some were held at country ranges that were nothing more then tall piles of dirt for backstops and yet others that had backstop of natural embankments.

It's common sense that we need to secure our shooting ranges as best we can. But, IMHO, to say that unless we follow NRA's requirements to the letter in ALL given scenario's is more then a stretch. To say one can't possibly shoot safely on one acre or 500 acres without following NRA's guidelines to a tee is also bogus.

One thing for sure, we shooters/hunters all are supposed to know that we are responsible for every piece of led we let fly and really need to think about our shooting setups and backstops whether they are in the country or populated areas. A little common sense for safety and a little common courtesy towards our neighbors can go a long way.

I have a constant reminder that we sometimes just don't use common sense. The reminder is in the form of a .22 projectile in the living room, knotty pine wall behind the sofa from a trespassing squirrel hunter(aka "slob hunter") shooting at a squirrel in a tree and no backstop. :mad:
 
Whatever the size of the property, you must have a good barricade to shoot safely. One must avoid richochets off the ground short of the barricade. These ricochets often go flying well over the barricade.

The MB1 private weapons range at Ft. Sill had been open for many decades. Then one day someone had a close in ricochet. That muzzleloader bullet went over the mountain and hit a vehicle in the parking lot where the deer drawing was being held. That bullet could have easily killed someone.

That was the end of MB1 range. It's a crying shame too because that was a really good firing range.

Bullets that leave the property you are shooting on have the shooters names on them.


http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12626026

http://q13fox.com/2013/06/17/target...rndale-where-woman-is-killed-by-stray-bullet/

http://kidshootings.blogspot.com/2012/11/5-year-old-texas-boy-nearly-killed-by.html

This Bray, OK boy was shot at ball practice with a .30-06 bullet fired from a two groove Springfield rifle. The shooter has not been found.

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/bray-ok/T3S4O7D394T9DRPHS
 
Whatever the size of the property, you must have a good barricade to shoot safely. One must avoid richochets off the ground short of the barricade. These ricochets often go flying well over the barricade.
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It's always enlightening to shoot tracers and see how many of those rounds actually go up in the air. Especially when you're shooting at flat ground rather than a berm.

But a berm isn't the end-all-be-all, as I used to shoot at a range called the Bullethole in San Antonio that had (and may still) have ranges on both sides of a 12 foot or so berm, where they're shooting at each other. Quite often you'd walk out and find rounds sitting on the hood of your car. I'm not sure if anyone's been seriously injured from their ricochets, but it's only a matter of time.

On a side note, when I was in Iraq we had a kid who never left the wire, get a Purple Heart and a Combat Action Badge for getting hit by a stray round in the arm fired in the air by the Iraqis for celebratory gunfire. So the rounds can do damage.

However as others have pointed out there's no one-size-fits-all solution to figuring out if somewhere is safe to shoot. You should think about it, but you don't need to go get a Master-Gunner or do Range Card or all that other stuff some people think. Like most things, the key is to not be stupid.
 
We had a fella here in Ohio living in the country, I believe last year, that walked outside one evening to shoot his black rifle off clearing it at season end. The projectile hits an Amish woman better then a mile away as she is tooling down the road in her horse drawn buggy.

Here in Ohio, we have shotgun season only for deer. Seems that everyone wants to shoot the newer,copper jacketed, plastic tipped, sabot rounds out of their rifled bbl shotguns. A few around here that never shoot anything until just before deer season, step out side their door and shoot 5-6 boxes to make sure they're zero'ed and don't have anything but standing trees as their backstops.
I have a neighbor that had words with the owner of the farm behind him about these shotgun rounds ricocheting through the trees towards his place.
The owner of the farm where the shooting was coming from responded to my neighbor that "these were shotguns the boys were shooting. Shotgun slugs don't ricochet that much".:rolleyes:

Again, not knowing the capabilities/limits of what was being shot.
 
Benchrest on the front porch. 100-yard backstop. The backstop isn't all that large, but MOA groups have plenty of elbow room. (Granted, there's a 250-foot high mountain behind the backstop--but I have yet to hit it when shooting at a target.)

I've had my own ranges on my own land since 1968. Haven't missed the center of a backstop since then.
 
I shoot outside all the time. I have 3 acres and shoot anything and everything. Deer hunt, hog hunt, target. Got a 125 yard range with a 5'X5' 14" cribbing backstop. It's not illegal to shoot where I live, make sure of your backstop. If you don't like it, don't move next door.
 
A brother in law recently bought a section (1 mile square) and I have permission to shoot there.

I drove about 80 miles to get to it,the plan being to confirm a 450 yd zero.I only had it on paper at 350 and antelope season was coming right up.

I was there the first time,alone,as a guest.

I could find a few layouts where I could have shot and I would be sure where my bullet would stop one was from a small hilltop down into a tire pile.

I even set up a target.

But,back at the firing point,I could always see someone's place well within the 180 degrees.Actually,maybe only 20 or 30 degrees off what would be my line of fire.Sure,maybe a mile away,but...

I thought,what if my family was on that place downrange.

I picked up my stuff and left without firing a shot.

I have no regret.
 
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