Shooting my 1860 Colt (repl) picture

I'll change my name if your buddies all agree.
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I'd like to count myself as one of Smokin_Gun's buddies, but a new name for you is gonna take some thought. How 'bout ol'_smoke_pole?

OK, OK.... I need some sleep...
 
why drill a frame to deal with a broken hammer spring? Why not just strip the gun and replace the spring?
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A weakness of the Colt SA design was the simple leaf spring that forces the hand forward against the back of the cylinder and into the cylinder notches so it doesn't slip out while turning the cylinder. The spring needs to be carefully and properly heat treated, otherwise it can become brittle and break prematurely. This was, and still is, a common failure.

It's a simple thing to replace the hand/spring assembly, but if you get a run of springs with poor heat treat it can be a bit costly and it is a real PITA. Ruger's design is much, much more reliable, using a coil spring and plunger. The coil spring is quite a bit more reliable. Once the Ruger design has been implemented hand spring failures are virtually unheard of.

Yes, replacing the Colt designed leaf spring is simple. Until you get tired of having done it several times. The Ruger design is simple to install and fixes the problem forever. Very tempting thing to do.
 
Smokin' gun that's mighty nice of ya to offer. Kinda hard to picka name for someone i barely know though...I can try, but if you come up with one first let me know so I don't hurt myself thinkin' :O) (Smokin_Gun is such a dang good name ya know) LoL!
 
How about "Smokin' Gunshop" or "Smokin' Gun Shop"?

"The Smokin' Gun Shop" (my personal favorite)

"A Smokin' Gun Shop" (multiple meanings)

Just donate my fee to the local animal rescue organization.
 
I'm still thinking about a name but it hurts to think. Hey, what do you think about 2 and 3rd generation colts. I know uberti was very involved. Do YOU think these unfired colts are valuable or would or do you shoot them? The one's we have supposedly have never been fired. I do have a 3'rd generation signiture series navy (1851) w/ accessories box. It's pretty but the loading leaver wobbles a little. Can't tighten it anymore. I thought about just taking it home and shoot it but since I'm a shop keeper my mind says no. I don't do competion shooting or reanactments --------I have a small farm and me and my partner shoot our 36 Navys out in my field at little blocks of wood at about 35 feet away. The 1860 uberti navy wins every time over the 1851 uberti navy. I love these guns. I had an" original" Gunnison confederate model in the 70's and sold it in Georgia back then for $100. It had the Augusta stamp and all. I wish like hell I still had it because it was firable/no pits/etc---but back then a $100 was a lot of money for me. Then I started buying kits from Navy Arms. I don't like the Navy arms pistols. I have some in the shop and you can buy them for next to nothing. I just re-newed my interest a short while ago in this thing ---so even though I'm selling this--I don't know all I should. i've learned a lot from you guys and appreciate it greatly. I expect to learn more.
 
Smokin' Gun (soon to be someone else)

2nd Gens & Sig Series Colts are collectable as long as they are NIB. 2nd Gens more so IMHO. They are also very shootable. I've got a pair of C series 1851 Navies and F series 1861 Navies that are accurate & fun to shoot. I buy NIB models for my collection, and those that someone played with or shot for my shooters. Let someone else take the hit for them not being NIB.

By 1860 Uberti Navy, do you mean 1861 Navy?? 1860s are Armies, not Navies.

Was the Augusta you had a "Gunnison' or was it an Ansley & Rigdon?? Ansley & Rigdon made Augusta models in 1864. I wasnt aware that Gunnison did.
 
I " soon to be someone else" thanks for the post. Stupid me- it is an 1861! And I also posted earlier about a Robert E. Lee---it's a 1971. I have ADD or CRS -- You guys keep me straight;okay? ! But, that 1861 NAVY has only 2 screws above the trigger. You remove the left one and the bottom of your hammer hand is exposed. I can't see it supporting anything but I'm ready to learn something again. I pack it with grease.

I don't like smoke pole as a name. It makes me sound way too old!!!LOL or something else:}
 
It was a Gunnison and Rigdon (I presume). It looked just like the old navy arms replicas. Now, I'm going back over 35 years, so I can't remember all the details. I do remember it had few markings. The barrel was not blued but not rusted or pitted. I was given some balls, a small can of pwder and caps. I bought it fo$80.00 since it looked like one of Clint Eastwood's. I bought it from a road side antique shop near Augusta.I shot it. and I was lucky because I had a hunter friend in my dorm that said: put vaseline on the chamber holes. But I did that after I loaded it and the chambers went off at the same time. "Now that scared me!" I think there was an X marked on the right side of the hammer. Gunnison was marked somewhere either on the top of the barrel or side of frame. I just don't remember.. I knew nothing about these guns but I remember the man that sold it to me said" It was made in Augusta,GA by the Gunnison Factory" during the Civil War. I put an add in the paper and a gun collector bought it after looking at it for no more than 20 seconds. I told him to put vaseline on the chamber openings before shooting it. He looked at me, cocked his head, rolled his eyes to his brow and said--this is going in my display case. And then he left with me standing with a c note in my hand. But, It was a brass frame gun w brass trigger guard ans strap with wood grips in great shape. and it shot! I think that that is why I originally posted because everyone was in an uproar over the weakness of brass frames. I shot a gun 20 or 30 or more times that was over a 100 yrs old w/ brass frame. I'm lucky I wasn't laying on my back with smokin' gun parts laying all over my chest. By the way, sometimes I get long winded--- Don't mean to--just runs in our family.
 
If it was an original Augusta Ansley & Rigdon, even 35 years ago, it was worth quite a bit. There were very few of them made. I'd have to pull out my ref book; but IIRC the quantity was less than 200. That's why it was going in his display case.

If you suffer from AAADD (age activated attention deficit disorder) or CRS, you're in good company. Most of us around here do too, to some degree.

The extra screw heads on the '60 Armies and '61 Navies are aligning/pivot posts for the shoulder stock. I'd never thought about using them to grease the hammer/hand; but then I only use Balistol to lub my C&B innards.
 
I remember Gunnison barely visible/ and the man that sold it to me said it was Gunnison. I wouldn't have remembered unless we bought a pietta Reb Confederate that said it was Gunnison and Rigby replica.. But I'm sure you are right because over 100 years maybe (who owned the gun" interchanged parts. Also, I'm going to change my name---when I get over my ADD and CRS. I pack Thompsons breach plug grease in that hole on the 1861 navy. Remember, these guns don't have bushings or bearings so grease is the only thing I can think of to protect these little springs or just think of them as bearings and have a box full of them. A spring rubbing up and down through that channel is going to break. And how do you heat treat a hammer hand spring since it's stamped into an already hardened part. I also don't think that the parts back in the day were as good as they are now. That is probably why there were so many gunsmiths in that era. And I did not get a grip on "2&3 generation colts discussion. If they have not been fired they still have the factory grease. So--you're saying that you can shoot um clean and sell them for the same price. ? I didn't quite understand that response--

Billy Hardy/ The Smokin' Gun ,Spartanburg SC
 
Billy, I stand corrected on the Ansley & Rigdon Augusta revolvers - there were around 800 of them made, not the 200 I stated earlier (I got the book out). The Griswold & Gunnisons were made in Griswoldville, GA - just east of Macon. The Ansley & Rigdons were made in Augusta GA. The most unique feature of the Ansley & Rigdons were the 12 bolt notches in the cylinders that made carrying one of them safer than any other Colt or Colt clones that had safety pins on the backs of the cylinders and notches in the hammer face.

You're right, these springs do break. I broke about 4 of them in a pair of Navy Arms Frontiersman '51 Navies before I figured out why. The channel that the spring rides over in each of the pistols was rough as a cobb. About 30 minutes with a round file, emery paper, and a stone, with copios amounts of oil turned those wear points into a smooth polished surface. When the bearing surface in the frame that the hand spring rides over is polished, most lubricants, short of grease, are sufficient. I smoothed the frames on all of my '51s & '61s and havent broken a hand spring since. I've got about 800 rounds on each of my 2nd Gen '61 Navies and they just keep on firing.

I guess I wasn't clear enough about the 2nd Gens. I collect NIB examples of the different models that were made in the 70s and 80s. I do not shoot the NIB ones in my collection. I do, however, shoot a pair of 2nd Gen '51 Navies and '61 Navies. These I purchased at less than NIB prices cause they had been shot or turned.
 
Thanks Fingers. I still want to shoot that 1851 3rd signiture but it sure looks good in the display. Please tell me to leave it alone. Also, I'll check that channel on the one I do shoot when I break it down. I usually just break it down to the frame and don't remove the trigger or flat spring. I clean it and use a hair dryer on it. Never thought of burrs before. Thanks. I guess that gun was a Griswold. Let's go find it :}
 
Hey, where's the real Smokin Gun? He must be mad at me for not changin' my name. I will. It's really weird how I decided to open my shop since ya'll know much more than me It was "hap" If you want to know, ask. I don't think any of us like long winded posting so I'll not. It was just something that came about. 6 mo's ago I hadn't fired a cap and ball revolver or thought much about them in 25 years. So--I guess I'm goin to have to rely on you on things---I might raffle off one in the store who picks out me a new name or offends me the best !

Wild Billy Hickup Hardy
 
My gun won't take the first cock that let's you rotate your cylinder anymore. Any advise on that one.
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????? not sure I understand what you're talking about. Are you saying it won't go into half cock? It might be the grease.
 
It goes into half cock and full c. But the first cock just lets you spin your cylinder. I thought it was the grease too! but I broke it down, wiped it clean and looked at the hammer. Sanded just a little under the top knotch but that didn't work. Then I assumed it's not that important as long it goes into half coc and pulls back perfectly in line.

We had some reanactment folks wanting pyrodex and sold out. They wanted the Hodgens ff fifle powder and I told them that wasn't a good idea and could order more pyrodex by Tues. Did I do the right thing? And is that 1st little cock that important on a gun that I just plink with?

Fingers---there's three cocks--the first don't catch.

Billy Hickup
 
Ok, I'm confused.

On any Colt SAA design there are three hammer positions: full down, half cock and full cock; thus there are only two, not three 'cocks'. These positions are defined by the two sear notches and the lack of a third notch on the front face of the lower part of the hammer. There are, however, either 3 or 4 distinct 'clicks' heard between full down and full cock, depending on timing. The 'clicks' are associated with the motion of the bolt, trigger, trigger/bolt spring, hand and hand spring; other than being the device which causes the action parts to move the hammer has nothing to do with the 'clicks'.

In the half cock position the hammer is prevented from moving forward by any means - either trigger pressure or by pushing on the hammer. The cylinder can be rotated by hand in a clockwise manner when viewed from the back; it can only be moved counterclockwise a small amount before the hand engages a ratchet on the back of the cylinder. Is this the position you are referring to as 'the first cock', and if so does the cylinder move freely in both directions or just one direction (clockwise)? Or is there some other position before half cock that exhibits this behavior?

You should be able to observe the trigger/hammer relationship with the trigger guard removed. As the hammer moves back you should be able to observe the trigger sear engage the two notches. The first defines half cock; the 'first cock' and half cock are the same thing. Does the sear enter the notch and remain there until the hammer is pulled further back? With the sear engaged in this first notch the trigger should not be able to cause the sear to disengage the notch and the cylinder should be free to rotate in a clockwise direction only (with a small amount of counterclockwise motion as mentioned above). Does this occur as described?
 
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Ok. It is the first click that allows you to spin your cylinder to the right just as if you barely pulled on the hammer to release the cylinder stop so you can move it freely.Now all it does is goes into half(safety) where the cylinder moves half way between chambers and hammer position--- and then you can pull it back to full cock to its click. Just 2 clicks I got on this one. Uberti 1861 navy. Should I file that knotch a tad or not worry about it. ? Billy
 
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