Shooting at Oregon mall

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In reality, that's a pretty high class place (Happy Valley), this was a freak incident that will probably never happen again.
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is it just me, or does it seem that the trend of public shootings does not discriminate against social status?

I agree, Happy Valley is a nice neighborhood. I live in Portland and am devastated by the news.
 
The more of these that happen the more I'm convinced that the Anti-gunners are behind it.

But in all reality I think it was just one more nutbar to add to the list of crazies.
 
Koda94 said:
is it just me, or does it seem that the trend of public shootings does not discriminate against social status?

I agree, Happy Valley is a nice neighborhood. I live in Portland and am devastated by the news.
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I took a criminal behavior class a couple of semesters ago and we discussed mass shooters and how they can occur any place and any time, it is a matter of prespective and how the media portrays it. My text book stated that mass shooters struck at targets that were soft, populated, and would make headlines. Malls, schools, etc. Which I, personally to be consider class neutral.

To further this, I read an editorial on the Chicago Tribune's online page today as I was doing my happy dance about the 7th's ruling. The author was sprouting the typical anti-gun "streets will be chaos" propaganda. What was striking to me was a comment left by another reader:
"How is this different from what Chicago already is?"

Further note, somwhat directed at Captain Stuart in regards to his daughter, or Glenn who used to live there, from what I've been reading, the mall was a posted gun free zone.
 
Well Servo...

Think about what usually happens almost on que when one of these mass shootings takes place...the Anti-gunners use the dead bodies to fuel their movement.

Anti-gunners are the group that have the most to gain from such acts.

Also note that the majority of such cases happen in a posted "Gun-free Zone" (besides the fact that the shooters while crazy aren't stupid) such zones are championed as the ultimate "cure" for the "sickness" and thus more of the same can continue to happen,a snowball effect if you will.

Even though it can be shown time and time again that the reason these places were picked is due to the "Gun-Free Zone" status.

That is why no matter how many times pro-gunners bring up the issue of the "G.F.Z's" not working,Anti's plug their ears,or ignore what is typed and go on about why "G.F.Z's" other other restrictive rules are the best answer.

The only other reason I can think of is that the Anti-gunners are really that stupid.
 
Pfletch, In this case, I understand this mall does not ban CCW. One poster mentioned his daughter being there but she left her firearm in the car...

Her daddy wasn't real happy with that part...

On that note... The daughter just might be in a pictuew shown on Fox news...

It was stated that the pic was from inside a pet store and several younger ladies are in the frame...

Brent
 
Was just listening to FOX News. They say the rifle jammed and that may have saved a lot of people. Q? How did he manage to shoot himself with a gun that was "jammed"?
 
It's just sad that there are people like this. I can't even begin to conceive why someone would want to do something like this.
 
On that note... The daughter just might be in a pictuew shown on Fox news...

It was stated that the pic was from inside a pet store and several younger ladies are in the frame...
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Yeah that's my idiot daughter, (Lower Left in dark jacket). The one WITHOUT the gun.

I spend a lot of time at that may, when I visit Portland, while my kids are at work I hang out at REI and B&N at the Star bucks, drinking coffee and reading. I've never seen a sign regarding no guns. I've always had mine, as does my daughter (when I'm there).

The thing is, Her brother's a Fed Cop in Portland, he grandpa is a retired Portland Cop, her uncle is a Clackamas County Deputy, her Cousin is a Happy Valley Cop,..........they all give her crap all the time for leaving the gun in the car, so I don't think they are concerned about her getting in trouble with for having a gun in the Mall.


Now to my daughter's defense (excluding not having a gun) she did good.

I worked with her on home defense. Found her a safe spot behind her bed (with her 7 dogs), where via security cameras, she can watch the whole house. She can tell it is the bandit or responding cops coming to her bedroom door. She also keeps another gun in that area. And we been working on her shooting.

She assured me last night that is what she was doing in the pet store, they were in a Office/store room area where they could see the store proper in case someone enters the store.

Of course being the grumpy daddy, I reminded her one AH crap (no gun) wipes out the "atta Girl".

Heck of a way to become a TV Star.

Moral of the story, THERE IS NO SAFE PLACES. If you ever been to the Clackamas Mall, you'd think that would be the last place on earth for such incidents.

For those who don't know, the Clackamas County Sheriff's office is about a block from the Mall, they also have an indoor range open to the public where we shoot. Real nice range. The put on several CCW & SD classes.

Its a pretty richy part of Portland. Shame some idiot has to screw it up.
 
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Moral of the story, THERE IS NO SAFE PLACES.
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This is truth. The thought of a safe place where you won't need to defend yourself is a myth. No matter where you are, there are crazy people who may, or may not doing something stupid like this shooting.

When I first heard that the gunman was dead, I was hoping (against hope, mind you) that a lawful CCW'er had done it. That could have potentially been something that would have helped the case we've been making all along. Instead, the mall (like all the malls in my area, unfortunately) will probably turn to No Guns Allowed because we all know that keeps criminals with guns out.
 
I used to carry there but that was years ago.

Second, there is no useful contribution to say antigunners were behind this. Please spare us unsubstantiated paranoia.

It is also not the case that such incidents happen more in gun free zones. While some shooters have been found to avoid places that have armed folks there, that is not a guarantee or predictor. Since many are sucidal (40%) kill themselves, it's not a consideration. We have shooters who attack police stations or tables of police in coffee shops or courthouses.

Defending the RKBA takes more than cliches - it take sophisticated thought. The reason for carry is that while there may be some deterrence, having a firearm gives you an another instrumentality for a better outcome possibility for the good guys side.

For example, the Tacoma Mall incident had armed citizens present - one who screwed up. As happened at the Tyler courthouse

Kraigwy - glad you daughter is ok. It's frightening to think about.

I recall wheeling the daughter as a baby around the place. Frightening.
 
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An informal take from a TX CHL instructors organization was that 80% don't carry. They wanted the CHL so they could have a legal car or truck gun.

I don't get that - what good is there for most interactions? Furthermore, the number of CHLs who train is very small.

It would nice if a CHL or CCW type acted wisely but that's a what if and doesn't do us much good here.
 
It's kind of like terrorist.

They have to be ready once, we have to be ready 100% of the time.

Take into account, the Clackamas Sheriff's office is 1 block away from the Mall, they use the Mall to train for active shooter situations, LE was prepared.

AND, according to reports, from the time of the first call it took 22 minutes to secure the scene.

Something to think about.
 
Think about what usually happens almost on que when one of these mass shootings takes place...the Anti-gunners use the dead bodies to fuel their movement.

Anti-gunners are the group that have the most to gain from such acts.
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True, but if you drop a wallet with $500 and I find and keep it, that doesn't mean I picked it from your pocket.

Do the antis use tragedies like this for political gain? Yep. Is it tactless and grim? Yep. But we belittle ourselves by blaming them as the cause.

Even though it can be shown time and time again that the reason these places were picked is due to the "Gun-Free Zone" status.
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While many public shootings take place in gun-free zones, not all do. The Tuscon and Aurora shootings did not. Furthermore, I don't recall any of the surviving gunmen having explicitly said they deliberately chose gun-free zones. There are other factors.

While gun-free zones do make it easier for someone to do something like this, we can't prove causality.

The only other reason I can think of is that the Anti-gunners are really that stupid.
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That would be a dangerous mistake. They've got very smart people and very real money behind their cause, and their methods of distorting the truth are very effective.
 
Fox News says the shooter's AR-15 rifle did jam and that he was able to get it working at least long enough to shoot himself.
 
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