Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them?

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I wasn't going to add anything further to this post, but after reading all the posts, I've decided to throw in two additional cents worth:

This is, for the most part, a very enjoyable Forum to read and participate in. I have found it to be very educational as I never stop learning. I respect each and everyone's right to their opinion and viewpoint. And therein lies my problem; this is a firearms forum and not a hunting Forum.

I'm not a tree hugger or an animal rights activist but as a current dog owner and former horse rancher, I am totally turned off by the way this post has gone. Yeah, I know I didn't have to read it but that is not the point. As a horse rancher, I had other animals (livestock) on my ranch and did lose a share of them to predators such as coyotes, racoons, fox, etc. I took whatever measures I had to take to protect my livestock. And...that is the point, I used my rifle/handgun to protect. I did not go on the hunt for the sport. If this thread had gone in the vein such as, for example, I use my AR-15 against coyotes and my ACOG scope has really paid for itself, I would say..Cool.
I hate to sound like a stick in the mud but think discussions such as this should be moved to a different Forum and future posts of this nature (no pun intended) be barred.

What say you Moderators?
 
A different forum like The Hunt? I was about to move it there. I almost moved it there yesterday, but let it slide.

You may be using the term forum as some of us use bulletin board. TFL is a bulletin board and the topic divisions are forums (or fora ... :D ). But the usage gets mixed up a lot and it's no problem unless people don't know what you mean. I, for example, think you may mean it should be off TFL, to which I respond, I don't agree. But if you mean it should be in the hunting forum, then I do.

To which we now go ...
 
After re-reading some of the post and the OP's statements, I have to agree with what I think he is saying.

Like I have said, I still hunt and kill different types of predators. But I do not kill something just to say I killed it.

Like the kid with a new B-B gun, who shoots every song bird he sees, just to shoot it. The guy who shoots rabbits and leaves them in the field, or the guy who shoots ducks and then throws them away. To me, that is wrong.

If you are not going to eat what you shoot, if you are not shooting something to stop it from being a predator or doing damage, then I definitely agree with the OP.
 
Just reading through a thread in another part of the forum made me wonder: Are people really afraid of coyotes, or are they just looking for quick justification to have something alive to shoot at?

Neither, actually.

I don't need justification to shoot a furbearer, and I hunt them for the challenge and the furs.

I do not fear them, nor do I hate them. In truth, I have a lot of respect for them as the cunning predators that they are, but they pose little or no threat to me. If one WERE to pose a threat to me, mine, or my animals, I have the knowledge and abilities to remove it from it's position in the food chain in a quick and humane manner, but those occurances aren't all that common.

No need in my mind to justify a legal and challenging hobby, sport, or occupation.

Daryl
 
Interesting thread as a older person raised on a farm in a rural area "many" years ago hunted for food and sport however I no longer do so since I do not find waiting in a deer stand to shoot a feeding deer "sporting" but I do not desire to stop those who do. All my shooting now is at paper however if I had the place to do so I would enjoy a grouse or pheasant hunt,;) still find that a challenge.
 
I guess I look at different sorts of motivations before making a judgement.

Killing "just for the hell of it" or purely for the fun of killing is Bad News. Wrong. Killing and then wasting an edible animal is wrong. The taxidermist example is pertinent.

Enjoying the success of a kill for which there is some rational reason is IMO a normal human-nature reaction. To me, it doesn't matter what animal is involved; game, pest or predator.

I dunno why people get all exercised about Wily Coyote and want to "save" him. He's a predator, for one thing; controlling his numbers helps prey species which are of interest to us at the top of the food chain. We could include our housepets as prey items, for that matter. Unfortunately for some of us, however, coyotes have done a few attacks on children in the Tucson area, and killed a woman up in Canada not long ago.

Foreign game? Why not? Whether culling an elephant herd of dozens of the creatures, or taking a trophy which provides large amounts of cash money to the local villagers--as well as meat--no animal lives forever. No hunter does, either.

IMO, the proper mindset for a trophy is to provide a memory of the package that is a good hunt. If nothing else, it immortalizes that one particular animal well beyond any other memory about him. I can look up on the wall above this monitor at my one and only antelope and remember the people, the day, the ranch, the other wildlife--all that. But the hunt was thirteen years ago. Will folks remember YOU, thirteen years after you're dead?
 
I always enjoy the posts about the coyotes eating cats, as if thats a bad thing! Cats do an incredible amount of damage to the populations of the native species of rabbits, song birds, ground birds ect. If only coyotes could just feed on outdoor cats we could kill 2 birds with one stone.
 
Uncle Buck
I think that could go either way.
Bobcats dont do that much damage around here, any that I know of, and I only seen 2 brief glimpses of them. They are not really a threat ,but if I happen to get a chance to shoot one, you better believe I'm going to shoot him just to put the fur on the wall.
I dont consider myself a prick for that.


I do agree that the people that shoot only for horns and leave the meat should be strung up.
But I dont agree that these kind of people are responsible for some animals going extinct. Plain fact is there are so many people in this world that they have to go somewhere and that somewhere is into the animals territory. The animals have to move or face extinction. Its more a matter of they are losing their home and die out in my opinion. But what do you do? You cant stop the human population growth.
I know this is not always the case, but it seems like most of the time it is.
 
Bud, for clarification, it should be in the hunting forum. Far be it from me to be put in a position to prevent people from expressing their views but the subject matter is not apropos to guns. It has become an issue of whether or not it is sporting to kill animals and that goes beyond the scope of a gun discussion. I vote to move it to the proper place.

Thanks for listening to what I have to say. Stuff like this makes me feel older than I normally feel as I have seen so much destruction in life that I don't want to see it in places I like to visit and participate. And....I don't want to appear as a narrow minded old grump. I've said my piece. Take out of it what you think it's worth.
 
I haven't read any of the previous posts so sorry if this is a repeat. Yes, I know many people who kill just to kill. Just in the past month I know of several unethical decisions made by "hunters." Examples include shooting a beaver with a 22 and leaving it dead and walking through the woods shooting into every squirrel nest with a shotgun just to get one to run out. As far as coyotes, most people in the east shoot them because they are a non-native predator. We wouldn't have this problem if there wasn't a niche to fill. With the extirpation of mountain lions and wolves, the coyote has found a very productive place to make a living. While there aren't many species that will prey in coyotes, they are most certainly controlled through natural processes (prey cycles etc.). I support those whe shoot coyotes for the reason that they are a non-native species. However, I think that people should think about the whole native vs. non-native phenomonon. The distribution of species has changed numerous times throughout history due to changing climates and other factors. Many specis that would be considered non-native at a certain place at the present time would have been found there a long time ago.
 
I shoot coyotes for the hides and only when the fur is prime. I'd never shoot a coyote just to waste it. I admire the little critters.
 
In Alabama.......

of course, there are no natural predators either on coyotes.

They seem extremely numerous, w/ tracks, scat and howling packs easily observed. Some fairly well thought out studies are indicating that areas w/ heavy coyote numbers will have reduced deer herds. A summer scat study yielded fawn hair in 80-80% of coyote scat examined. I have seen to many coyotes stalking turkey decoys and responding to my spring turkey calls not to believe they are hard on turkeys as well.

Ground hogs used to be very common in my area, but no longer. There demise is attributed to the coyote, who locate the dens and lay in wait for a chuck sandwich. People are losing pets to 'yotes, I've heard more than one story of people seeing their dog killed by a coyote pack. Anybody that raises or keeps any type of fowl on their place will be no fan of the coyote either.

It is not shooting fish in a barrel. Coyotes are slick, with tremendous nose and canine intelligence. With all the dedicated predator hunting, all the "Bubba's" blazing away when one is spotted, and no protection by any agency short of the preserves and National Parks ( they are universally labled a predator and pest by every game and fish dept I am aware of) the coyote is doing fine, w/ increasing numbers and expanded range.

BTW, though its not an absolute, I seldom see a road-killed coyote, they are way to sharp for that.
 
Great Point

I always enjoy the posts about the coyotes eating cats, as if thats a bad thing! Cats do an incredible amount of damage to the populations of the native species of rabbits, song birds, ground birds ect. If only coyotes could just feed on outdoor cats we could kill 2 birds with one stone.

My experience backs this up.

I used to live in the middle of a mjor California city. It has a nice river that runs through the middle of it. Along the river, miles of nature trails have been put in place. About ten years ago I got a puppy and used to go to the river trails with her for our adventures.

The first couple of years there we saw many, many feral cats. Not much else as far as wildlife went, including birds. My third year exploring this ecosystem has me seeing a coyote now and then. By the fourth year coyotes were becoming more common. In fact that spring the county posted coyote warning signs along the river. Apparently some female coyotes had nested in the area and they had become very aggressive towards dogs, even charging them when on a leash.

I also noticed an increase in the number of birds in the area. Quail coveys were becoming larger and more common. I even started to take my call there for practice. One time my calling lured a coyote of the bushes. Feral cat spottings were becoming fewer and farther between. A conversation with a park ranger confirmed my theory. The coyotes moved in, the feral cats disappeared, the birds returned.

Ain't nature wonderful?
 
I`ve not read through this thread in its entirety but I did read the OP and a few reply`s.

No disrespect to the OP but would it be fair to ask if your from the city? Reason I ask this is its apparent you`ve NOT seen the distruction/killing coyotes do to livestock/wildlife if there population is not kept in check.

IMO, the title of this thread 'Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them' and the example of the coyote used in the OP`s opening comment doesn`t make sense.

I don`t know the populace of coyote in Arizona but the coyote is a problem in Ohio.

This thread reminds me of the thread a while back on shooting feral pigs in which alot of people that lived in states without a hog problem blasted those that are shooting feral hogs simply cause they(the people that don`t understand the distruction the feral hog are doing) haven`t experienced any problems.
We need to remember, a certain species of animal thats not a problem in one region may be a problem in another. Hence the next coment.



There was a reason DNR`s in many states had/has a bounty on coyote AND there`s no closed season. Along with different bag limits/legal hunting season`s on different species

As to 'killing an animal just for the sake of killing it', I don`t believe in it but in these parts the title of this thread and the example used ???

I seldom see a road-killed coyote, they are way to sharp for that

Hey bama, don`t think our yote`s here in Ohio are that sharp. I see (on the average) 1-2 every month or so.
Course if you do much driving here you`ll understand many driver`s aren`t that sharp either. hehe.
 
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Banditt007, coyotes eating cats in the boonies is indeed a good thing. However, coyotes eating Fluffy Poo-tat in a residential yard is a different matter entirely.
 
Banditt007, coyotes eating cats in the boonies is indeed a good thing. However, coyotes eating Fluffy Poo-tat in a residential yard is a different matter entirely.

I might agree with your Art if it wasn't for the fact you're talking about CATS! Yuck! Them and little foo-foo dogs. Let the coyotes have em. :)

LK
 
Well, Kilkenny, it's not important if you or I like or dislike cats. I hate to see some kid's eyes when he figures out that a favorite pet is gone.

My dislike for little yap-dogs is insignificant, compared to the companionship felt by some little old lady.
 
Sorry SteelJM1, the population is not controlled...

Here in the SE, you can hardly even get a wildlife officer/National Forest Ranger to admit coyotes are even here. I assure you, as someone who has been woken up by a pack of over 10 outside my window (and fence), they are breeding like rabbits and have no natural predators here. Our deer population is indeed going down, and farmers have tried to report attacks on fawns and domesticated critters too (ex. calves) witnessed first hand during field work, but, of course, we're too stupid and guv'mint folks are too smart to ever believe us common citizens. People have been attacked in their suburban yards here. They're showing up in Charlotte, NC, and even Central Park in NYC. Um, it might be time to admit populations are booming nationwide, but, then again, what do I know? I'm not an enlightened city dweller :D
 
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Haven't actually been hunting in years,used to love to go rabbit and squirrel hunting.Grouse,pheasant and quail nothing better.
However i have recently shot feral cats,dogs and coydogs.I don't consider that hunting ,its taking care of a problem.The rabbit population dwindled because of the feral cats,and lost several calf's to the dogs.
Do i get enjoyment out of it,no its just something that has to be done.Do i feel bad,no i feel pi**ed off at the people that dump their animals off on the side of the road and have to fend for themselves.
 
m.p. - I hear ya man. When I lived in the country a few years ago, we had dogs and cats dropped off at the rate of about three every week. The county wouldn't take them at the pound or do anything about the situation. So, between the neighbors and me we used loads of 22 shells cleaning up the problem. At the time I had sheep and goats and some expensive big game hounds and couldn't take any chances of disease transfer to my hounds or wanton killing of my flock.

One side note about cats: Why do people who live in town just let their cats run free? People with cats should be just a respectful of their neighbors as people with dogs are. I hate other people's cats in my yard. And, BTW, Art most of those little old ladies you're talking about have 15 or 20 cats hanging around that they feed and then don't take care of them otherwise. So, that the feral cats multiply without restraint.
 
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