Seriously wanting a brush gun!

I broke out of my "traditional deer rifle"
and for short money I bought an upper and
lower for a "M4" 6.8spc and never looked back.
Wrapped the front end in cloth camo tape,
installed a Kies blast master.
Light an accurate as well as being a "short" .270..
Range is no issue with a compact 2-7x leupold
 
With Winchester it was somewhere around 1992 for the cross-bolt safety and around 2003 they switched to a tang mounted safety. Marlin started earlier - early 80's. Although somebody else will have to say whether the Marlin is a trigger lock safety or a hammer block safety. I haven't shot one of the Marlin lever actions since the mid 70's.
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The Marlin 336 family (that includes the 444s and 1895s) got the cross-bolt safety in 1983 (serial numbers with first two digits "17" or less). Some rifles, primarily 444s and 1895s, were built on old receivers and sold without safeties into 1984, but the first year for the lawyer button was 1983.

It is a hammer block safety. You can still pull the trigger and drop the hammer. It just smacks the safety instead of the firing pin - if operating correctly - while your deer bounds off into the woods, because you forgot that you put the stupid safety on in the first place. :(



I, personally, have collected a few "brush guns" over the last 5-6 years.
The first one was a Mosin M38. It works, but after carrying a Marlin 336 on an Elk hunt, I no longer cared for the M38's ergonomics. A few things served "brush gun" duty while I figured out what I really wanted.

Now, the "primary" brush guns (mainly for Elk) are an H&R Handi-Rifle in .444 Marlin, an AR-15 in .458 SOCOM, and an under-construction Marlin 336 (with a safety :() that's being converted into a custom model 444SS*. There are also two possible bolt-gun conversions on the table - a Mauser action that could go 'stubby' (18" bbl) .270 Winchester or .35 Whelen, or a Marlin X7 that could be used for a .35 Whelen build.

*(Cornbush has a nearly-complete 336-to-444 conversion, that he did the final fitting, [temporary] finishing, and troubleshooting work on - it developed some issues after initial testing, but we got them worked out. ;))
 
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I would just feel too weird to carry an as issue military rifle hunting.

The Model 94 is the traditional compact rifle. Popular for a long time because it lays flat in a scabbard on horseback. But with a 20" barrel it's still a good sized gun lengthwise. I took the concept one step further. the M94 Trapper. Very compact with a 16" barrel. I know they were made in 30-30 and 44 Magnum and either would work for close range deer shooting.

Mine is in 44 Magnum. Stamped 1894-1994 I guess I've had it 20 years, now.

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On the years to "Avoid" I'm not certain but it is easy enough to just look at the action and see if there is a cross block safety. There is a "button" on the action that goes from side to side.
Many years ago, after a long day of hunting, I got back to my vehicle and unloaded- pointing the muzzle in a safe direction and not having my hand anywhere near the trigger. I levered in one round and ejected, levered in another .. BAM!. THE GUN FIRED. No harm since the muzzle was in a safe direction but I couldn't figure out what happened. I slowly moved my hand back and forth. It was freezing cold that day and I was really bundled up and the cuff of my jacket actually snagged the trigger as I closed the lever and the gun fired. With a cross bolt type safety on the newer guns this wouldn't happen.
After that accident did I immediately sell the gun and get a Marlin (They had them first)? No....I kept that M94 probably 3-4 more years but I was sure careful after that in unloading at day's end.
In fact if you have young hunters with you, if you end up each taking a tree stand or ground blind- train them to unload their firearms THERE at the end of the day before hiking back to the vehicle. That way you aren't unloading around other people.
Another reason I like a Marlin is you can remove the screw holding the lever in place. Once the lever is removed you can just slide the bolt back out of the action. This allows you to clean the bore from the breech rather than muzzle and you can also look through the bore very easily to see its condition. The Marlin also has a true side eject. I also think the rifling is better than the Winchester. My old M94 got around 5" groups at 100 hundred and folks said, "Oh it's a lever action, that's as good as you'll get" but the marlin336 will give me 2 1/2- 3" groups at 100 yards and sometimes better. With a low power 2 1/2x scope and a steady rest, it is a real deer killer out to 150 yards which in a lot of places is as far a shot as you'll get in woods. If you hunt farms and bean fields, then a Bolt Action and a tree stand are the deal.
By the way, the new cross block safeties on these lever actions makes them very good. They block the hammer which is what strikes the cartridge and fires the gun. The safety mechanisms on some other fire arms stop the trigger but the firing pin is cocked and under pressure and if internal parts are worn, a hard hit can trip the sear holding the pin and fire the gun.
 
Marlin vs Winchester

First of all, the Marlin and Winchester both have certain advantages over one another.
On the Marlin's side, it is more readily adapted to a scope; which I wouldn't have on a lever-gun, but it's true.
You can and should clean the Marlin from the breach.
You can put a Skinner aperature sight on the Marlin.
But, for the Winchester, there are some good options for aperature sights.
The Winchester is a better choice if you want to cast your own bullets. Apparently, Marlin's micro-groove rifling is tricky to get to shoot well with cast bullets.
For me personally, I like certain vintages of the Winchester better. But some of the Marlins are more attractive to me than the post-64 Winchesters. I like the 1893 Marlin as well as the 336T and the 336 Cowboy. However, I like cast bullets, so I lean away from micro-groove rifling.
 
Marlin`94s & 95s now use (and have been) standard Ballard grooves,
...and shoot cast bullets exceptionally well. :D
 
There is no bullet that will reliably shoot through brush. The only way to shoot through brush is with a gun accurate and flat shooting enough to shoot through tiny openings. You can't see those openings without good glass. Zeroed at 100 yards almost all modern cartridges from 243 on up will never have the bullet no more than 1/2 above or below your line of sight out to roughly 130 yards.
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I ascribe to this philosophy, to a great extent. My hunting rig is a .270 Win, in a bolt-action rifle, sporting a 3-9X scope that can see a twig at 200 yards or less. My hunting buddies and I are good at finding that opening. Heavy brush isn't a good place to shoot at deer with a rifle. Shotguns with buckshot can be the only way to get one, but limits a person to about 50 yards.

Shooting at a feeding deer in the woods requires a scope that can see all the openings ahead of the slowly moving deer. If a deer is running and more than a few yards away, forget shooting. You'll often wound a deer, if you hit it at all. That's not being a good hunter, IMHO.
 
I would just feel too weird to carry an as issue military rifle hunting.
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For many years, bolt actions were "issue military rifles"

You should see the looks I get hunting doves with a Benelli MI S90 Tactical

The doves can't tell a difference

When I hunt the thick places, one of my favorites is a Browning Micro Medallion 7mm08

It works up close, and if I step out of the woods and see one in the fields, it works there too
 
What if any years of the 94's are to avoid?
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The pre-64 is, like all other Winchesters, the most desired for it's materials, craftsmanship, and finish. But they also reflect it in their price. Good, serviceable 94 Winchesters made after 1964 are out there. The changes made for cost cutting were some stamped, instead of milled parts. The early post '64 guns are prone to flaking of the metal finish, and don't take to refinishing well.
In 1982 they added the Angle Eject which allows for a top mounted scope. If I remember correctly, the metal finish problem had been solved by that time as well.
Also, in 1981 the rebounding hammer was added to replace the half-cocked.
These features don't really make a lot of difference to function, but are very undesirable to purists wanting a "cowboy gun"
The most objectionable, and to many including me needless change was the addition of a crossbow safety in 1992. Followed by a only marginally less obnoxious tang safety in 2004.
So, for a decent hunting gun, carried in the woods, and actually used, there really isn't much of a problem with post '64 rifles. If the original finish looks good, it's probably going to stay that way. If you want to add a scope, look for an Angle Eject model. If traditional aesthetics are not a major concern, and you feel you need an additional safety, or don't care either way but find a newer model that you like, get a lawyered up model with a safety.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1894#1964
http://www.shootersforum.com/winchester-94-lever-guns/29854-winchester-94-rebounding-hammer.html
 
Just to make myself a standing target, I have been hunting deer in very heavy brush, very heavy, for well over 40 years. The best gun and ammo combo I have found for this is.....Get Ready...a Remington 870 12 ga. with Brenneke KO slugs. Never had a deer take more than 4 steps after being hit. Never took a shot at over 75 yards. If the deer is too far away, get closer. That's why it's called hunting. Took deer #86 with that combo this year.
Works for me. Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
If the deer is too far away, get closer
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That's not always an option, especially in dense areas

I prefer not to limit myself to a firearm that's only good at short distances, when there are so many that will reach farther.
 
I prefer not to limit myself to a firearm that's only good at short distances, when there are so many that will reach farther.
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But this caliber, and accuracy war has drastically diverted the subject from what it began as

As I was looking around I also realized it would be tough to get a 100 let alone 200 yard shot due to the undergrowth. I think this calls for a fast handling open sighted .30-30!
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So what is the point of having a longer, less convenient, 300+yard gun if the maximum range you are hunting is less than 100 yards? Well within the capability of a short, easy handling lever gun. The OP already mentioned he has a scoped 270 which would serve well for longer ranges.

Obviously my scoped .270 felt a little cramped in there.
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My suggestion of course would be keep the 270 for times you may need longer range capability, and buy the thudy-thudy you want. :D
 
I bought it used with that stock in 1966 and my late dad and I refinished the stock with a poly and put that butt pad on then. I did not want to cut the stock shorter as I liked the wood. Otherwise a recoil pad would be on there.

Someone commented on that picture years ago that the stock was not original.

It became my primary big game rifle then where I have a camp in VT and have hunted with it in the NorthEast. The primary bullet used has been the 200 gr Silvertip. All the deer I have taken have been with handloads.
 
Ultimate Country Western Woods Deer Rifle

I have several brush guns. Most of my deer hunting is done in mountains of
WVa, Va and hills of Ohio. Ohio's 1st year of rifle season forced me to use
Marlin 1895-45/70. My favorite is a Marlin 336 Renegade carbine in 30/30
They also made this model in 35 Rem. Mine has Lyman #66 peep. Has scuffed
quite a few deer. A lot of women and kids have popped their 1st deer with this
little carbine.
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Savage99--Mine is not all original either. It has a rubber recoil pad on it, which I can't complain about. I got some Winchester box ammo with it and could not hit a barn with it, so I reload too. It is definitely hard on deer.
 
This is just for the newbies. That cross block safety. When the lever actions first came out they had a half cock notch. So, you loaded up and if you had a cartridge in the chamber you pulled the hammer back to the half cock notch. Now, let's say your sitting against a tree trunk and here comes a deer. You pulled back the hammer. It would audibly "click" into full cock BUT if you kept a little pressure on the trigger, pulled back the hammer, let go of the trigger and lowered the hammer- you could cock the thing with no sound. It was a great system and that's how I still do it. This half cock, I GUESS theoretically you might be moving through underbrush that could snap and pull back the hammer and somehow accidentally fire the gun but talk about a million to one probability. The only trouble with this system was unloading the gun. There are a lot of guns that are unloaded by having to feed live ammo in and out of the chamber. A bolt action without a detachable clip, a pump action with tube magazine, the old lever actions- all these firearms were unloaded in that manner.
The cross bolt put a block that prevented the hammer from dropping on a live cartridge so in my humble opinion, that was a big improvement. I didn't want to make a big deal over this feature but since younger shooters were mentioned- I thought I'd point it out. As said, the pre-1964 Winchesters had actions milled out of a solid block and the post 1964 I think were stamped and welded or something like that. From an engineering standpoint it was probably okay but the older guns just reek of superiority even if they lacked the cross block type safety.
I am told that the Marlin action has a potential flaw, that how the parts rub together can wear. This requires a lot of shooting. Personally when I got my Marlin 336 I tried several brands of ammunition then reloaded with flat nosed Hornaday 170's and now shoot about 20 rounds at the start of each hunting season just to make sure the sights are still okay....so I really don't shoot the gun that much. In any event the Winchester linkage is supposed to last longer. When my eyes were good I didn't need a scope and the Winchester was great. I loved that gun. If I was going to be up in the wilds of Canada, hundreds of miles from the nearest road, I would want a real workhorse gun and I'd go back to the open sights, and would consider the Winchester 94 or Marlin 336. Either is a fine rifle/carbine- brush gun.
Incidentally, I have never reloaded "hot" for a 30-30 but I believe the newer rifles can take a slightly heavier load. You can also go with the 30-30AI, a wildcat load. The case walls are different and grab the chamber better and you can get better power.
 
With bolt, lever or pump guns you always have the option not to cycle the round in and out. Pull the lever, bolt or pump back to catch the new shell, push it half way forward and then pull back, and the shell will be loose to roll out. Repeat till empty.

or go wild in a safe direction and pump them out like you're throwing spent shells. But I do mine the way explained.

Of course as of late Winchester is posting ads saying the win 94 before the safety doesn't have a safety and should be handled safely.


PRODUCT SAFETY NOTICE – WARNING
10/1/2014
WINCHESTER® Model 94 Family of Lever-Action

Rifles, Carbines, and Muskets with Half-Cock Safety

Winchester Model 94 (including commemoratives); Winchester Model 1894;Winchester Model 9422 and Model 9422M; Winchester Model 55 Sears® Model 54 and Ted Williams® Model 100; Winchester Model 64 and 64A; Winchester Centennial ’66; Winchester Canadian Centennial ‘67

Olin Corporation, through its Winchester Division, is warning users of the above firearms that when there is a live cartridge in the chamber, dropping, jarring or bumping the firearm may cause an accidental discharge, which may result in property damage, serious personal injury or death to the user or others:

With the hammer in the full-down position, a slight impact to, or bumping the hammer can cause a discharge.
With the hammer in the half-cock safety position, a hard impact to the hammer, such as from dropping the firearm, can break the safety mechanism and cause a discharge.
With the hammer in any position, a hard impact, such as from dropping or jarring the firearm, can cause a discharge, even if the hammer is not impacted.

To reduce the risk of accidental discharge, follow safe firearm handling practices, including:

Always maintain control of the firearm and keep your firearm pointed in a safe direction at all times.
Never place the hammer in the full-down position when there is a live cartridge in the chamber.
Never rely on the half-cock safety to prevent accidental discharge due to dropping or jarring the firearm, or hard impacts to the hammer.
When there is a live cartridge in the chamber, avoid activities that increase the risk of dropping or jarring the rifle, such as running, climbing, crossing a fence, and taking the firearm up and down from a tree stand.



This is not an ammunition or firearm recall.
 
As said, the pre-1964 Winchesters had actions milled out of a solid block and the post 1964 I think were stamped and welded or something like that. From an engineering standpoint it was probably okay but the older guns just reek of superiority even if they lacked the cross block type safety.
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The later receivers weren't even as 'good' as stamped or welded steel. They are a sintered graphitic steel. The sintering process and graphite content didn't take bluing or any other decent surface finish very well, which is why Winchester iron-plated the receivers in order to caustic-blue them. That iron plating flaking off is the blotchy cancer that you seen on many examples that have not been maintained well.
 
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