Senator McCain.... the Democrat?

The simple fact is that the only way to keep Obama (or Hillary, as the case may be) out of the White House will be for McCain to win. While he might not be what conservatives really want, he will be more accessible and receptive to conservative influence than Obama or Hillary.

And there is absolutely no reason to believe that voting for a third party candidate, writing in someone else or simply not voting for McCain will bring about any fundamental change to the tow party system or to the Republican Party. It didn't in TR's day, and it won't today. It'll just put a super liberal into the White House.
 
The lesser of two evils in not an option for me, I just refuse to vote McCain
perhaps next time the GOP will pick a Republican candidate.;)
 
I like McCain myself. Unlike the hard line Republican wanted by Limbaugh, Hannity, and so many on this board who would insure 4 more years of gridlock, McCain may be able to allow the government to actually govern.

No matter how strongly you feel about your position somebody probably thinks you are 100% wrong. The truth is often in the middle. McCain is in the middle.
 
No matter how strongly you feel about your position somebody probably thinks you are 100% wrong. The truth is often in the middle. McCain is in the middle.
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Doing what is called the "middle" is what's gotten us in this damned mess in the first place. All that has been offered to us is 150 mph into a brick wall by the neocommunists and 75 mph into the same brick wall by the opposition-turned-collaboration. They do NOTHING to reverse the problem. McCain is the middle because he's less bad, not because he's more good.
 
Here is what I plan to contribute to the McCain Campaign if I get letters begging for money (I made it and anyone is free to copy it if they want to use it too):

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Yellowfin, the problem is that the middle is who any candidate will need in order to gain enough support to get anywhere. Without that middle, anyone will be out of the hunt, and so far the conservatives have been unable to put forth a candidate who can inspire that middle.

So the best we can now hope for is someone who will be at least sympathetic to conservative ideas and susceptible to conservative influence. McCain will be, at least because of party affiliation.

Remember also, that in every election, it's a choice between the lesser of two evils -- at least for someone. If your dream candidate were to be the Republican nominee, some folks would consider him the lesser of two evils. And he would not have a chance of being elected unless some of those folks decided that their lesser evil was better than the greater one.

And wingman, thank you for your efforts to get Obama (or Hillary) elected President.
 
And wingman, thank you for your efforts to get Obama (or Hillary) elected President.
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No, thank you for wanting to elect someone who appears to be much worse then our present leader, as a Vietnam vet I have followed McCain, read his books watched his climb up the political ladder and he in my opinion is not someone to have at the helm. Certainly we need change but all we get with McCain is someone who will continue the current policies of selling out this country to business interest. The time of the one issue voting is over for me this country can no longer afford to do so. Perhaps if a democrat is elected the gop will see the light and make an effort to correct there mistakes if not we will be lost in any event.

Those of you who wish to vote for the lesser of two evils continue on because each time the choices will be more evil.
 
The time of the one issue voting is over for me this country can no longer afford to do so.
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Please. McCain isn't going to "sell out" our country.


Perhaps if a democrat is elected the gop will see the light and make an effort to correct there mistakes if not we will be lost in any event.
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Or perhaps the democrats and neo-libertarians will simply be happy. ;)
 
I don't like anyone who takes the status quo as a given or pretends that it's good. This sliding scale of what the middle is simply repugnant.
 
Whether or not "This sliding scale of what the middle is..." may be repugnant, it is a fact of political life, and it has been since the beginning of politics. It is a reality of all political process. It always has been, and always will be.

In any political dynamic, whoever succeeds in capturing the middle will win. The fringes remain fringes, simply because they fail to capture the middle.
 
It has been what is tolerated, not what is a solid fact. What is a fact is that if something is let slide it will. Give them an inch and they'll take the whole yardstick. At best all that is done about is complain about it...and that even fades with 30 seconds' attention span. There is absolutely no founding in reality whatsoever that the shift left is a given, that it "must" be. NO. It is what happens when we don't demand otherwise. And it's about damned time we did.
 
Who co-authored the most recent Immigration Reform [Shamnsity] Bill?
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That would have been McCain, who was trying to get something done on the issue. But don't let reality get in your way, it sounds like you're happier with what we have now. Which is nothing.

But at least you're able to continue whining and complaining. And complaining and whining. If Hillbama is elected, absolutely nothing will be done about illegal immigration, and you'll be able to continue whining and complaining. And complaining and whining. ;)
 
But don't let reality get in your way, it sounds like you're happier with what we have now. Which is nothing.
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The nothing we have now is better than the plan McCain and his colleagues came up with. I am not happy with the current situation, but its better than amnesty.
 
If not voting, or writing in make you feel better, than we can't stop you, but you won't feel better once the government gets insanely bigger, your taxes go way up, healthcare goes down the toilet, the list goes on.
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This is what seems so amusing to me, that those whom will vote for McCain think that he is a conservative. He voted against the Bush tax cuts, and it took an enormous amount of arm twisting to get him to "pledge" to not end the Bush tax cuts during the primaries.

McCain supporters, delude yourselves if you wish into believing McCain is a Conservative. In a room filled with you, me and McCain, you would be the only one who believes it.
 
Well Yellowfin, the "shift left" seems more to be a function of the phenomenon that in the last 50 years or so the left has done a better job of inspiring the vast middle. What constitutes the middle is subject to change, and these days, it seems more inclined to align itself with the left.

I suspect that the messages of the left, i. e., "we will take care of you and solve the problems of the world and protect you", illusory though they may be, resonate with the middle. And I guess the messages of the right, i. e., "it's up to you to make your way in the world" haven't been very attractive to an increasingly timorous and uncertain middle.

There are those of us who believe that the messages of the left are indeed illusory and essentially bankrupt and that the messages of the right offer opportunity. But the messages of the right are fairly unpalatable. We've had very few leaders who have been able to inspire the middle with what to many are harsh and frightening notions. And so the middle tends to shift toward the left.

And I agree that it would be desirable for this shift to change, but you won't get anywhere demanding that it change. Why would the middle accede to your demands? No, the middle must be inspired.

And the reason that the middle, whatever it may be at any given time, is so important is simply that neither the left or the right itself is a majority. Each must seek the "swing" votes to prevail. Look at many of the democracies that have adopted a parliamentary system. So often they rely on coalitions to form a majority capable of electing a prime minister.

The basic political model is, and has been, relatively small groups firmly entrenched on each side of an issue and a center that must be won, by one or the other, to decide how that issue will be handled.

Do you propose to change that? How do you propose to do that? Do you really think that you can demand that state of affairs change?

We need to understand the middle and its importance. We need to look for ways to inspire them. We will not gain the middle by reviling them for muddling the purity of our conservative thought.
 
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FireMax, whether or not you are willing to consider McCain to be a conservative, of the possible Presidents, he will be the one most accessible and receptive to conservative influences. Neither Obama nor Hillary will be likely to give a conservative thought the time of day.
 
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