Self Defense article

Alas, if you aren't in that community already you don't always know who these people are.
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Tracking down good instructors in this day and age is actually quite simple. The internet provides some good information, which can be backstopped by something as simple as calling the local police department and asking who they train with and/or recommend. In fact, it's probably easier finding quality instructors in this field than in finding good martial arts instructors (the two are most certainly not always the same).

Here are two names that spring instantly to mind: Steve Tarani and Mas Ayoob. Any internet search will bring them up quickly, and their credentials and qualities can be verified by cross-checking other sources. I'd say Louis Awerbuck but he hasn't gotten around to teaching retention/disarms to the best of my knowledge.
 
Buzz,

A strike to the opponent won't necessarily render him unable to present a threat, that's sorta my point, a disarm doesn't neutralize him either, it just removes 1 of his weapons.

OTOH, a good punch to his throat will give him something else to think about and will tip the scales radically in your favor. With the disarm he is thinking about doing something to you with his weapon, when you try to disarm him he is thinking about preventing you from doing something to his weapon, which are actually pretty damn similar.

But if he needs to go from thinking about doing something to you with his weapon to desperately trying to maintain his balance, or prevent his arm from being broken, or stop another punch to his neck, he has a completely different priority and has to go through another OODA loop. This puts the advantage in your favor.

As far as the main point of the thread concerning disarming: the debate back and forth is legitimate but it unfortunately ignores the main aspect of the overall conflict taking place. Disarms are icing on the cake, nothing more.

If a criminal is threatening you HE is the threat, not the gun, the gun is only a tool. If you go for his gun at the expense of addressing him you waste critical time and make yourself vulnerable, you can take his gun away and he still might be able to do you harm. Maybe the gun doesnt work or isn't loaded, maybe while you're struggling for the gun he stabs you with his knife.

One must neutralize the threat, if you can disarm him in the process of doing so, more power to you, but keep things in perspective.
 
But if he needs to go from thinking about doing something to you with his weapon to desperately trying to maintain his balance, or prevent his arm from being broken, or stop another punch to his neck, he has a completely different priority and has to go through another OODA loop. This puts the advantage in your favor.
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I agree 100%. I think we may have been talking past each other a bit for which I apologize.
 
I get the feeling that some here read some other article than the one that started this. Perhaps I'm wrong that girls having their mommies make them go to this course is going to give them real world skills that they will from then on diligently hone, rather than just go back to condition white and think they now know all they need to know and are safe from everything. Especially, with only the article and their website to go on, training that looks dubious. Maybe everyone else read the article about the women eager to learn disarming techniques as part of a total package of self-defense skills. I must have missed that one. I think we're discussing two very different scenarios, the one presented versus some idealized vision of what we'd like these young women to learn.
 
It started about that particular article, then quickly devolved into the impossibility of learning anything beneficial in a course that lasts only a few days. This is, of course, blatantly false and the reason so many have responded accordingly.
 
I dropped most of the post because it would just re-fuel an argument that has subsided---- but let me ask...
Are people who bother taking such courses really condition white people?
 
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No? You didn't read very far, about 4 paragraphs from the top:

"Katelyn Van Allen, 18, refused to come downstairs when her mother, Anne, invited Moldovan to their Lake County home for an introduction to Self-Defense 101.

"I did not want to do it at all; it seemed stupid," she said. "I thought that I could just carry pepper spray, and I'd be fine. But our mothers forced us to go to the class.""

Now I'm convinced that everyone else is reading some different article in an alternate universe somewhere.
 
No? You didn't read very far, about 4 paragraphs from the top:

Katelyn Van Allen, 18, refused to come downstairs when her mother, Anne, invited Moldovan to their Lake County home for an introduction to Self-Defense 101.
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Credit where credit is due, I never saw a hyperlink, and read it as; "this article...." as if to say; "some article...." but I still doubt she was coerced. Seems to me that forced here means "convinced". By those standards, I'm "forced" to go to my mother in laws every other week. I don't see the duress.
 
Mas Ayoob said:
Justme, I believe you're thinking of "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.
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I "read" it on tape while driving. While a hypocritical anti gunner, he has no problem with his "proffesionals" having guns, the amount of information on avoidence and controling the situation emotionally is fantastic. I thought it a worthwhile read.
 
Mas, good link there. You know, during this whole thread I've been thinking of a young man we met this summer. Bet you have, too.

Agreed that The Gift of Fear is a worthwhile read.

And I'm still flabbergasted at the number of people who're willing to say

1) that women can't learn this stuff (no female cops exist, I guess)

2) that you can learn nothing worthwhile in any span less than "years" (how long does it take to learn a single technique in your dojo?)

3) that if you can't learn everything, you're better off if you learn nothing at all (Alexander Pope lives ...)

Such determined defense of ignorance really boggles the mind!

pax
 
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Came across a news article just now that somehow seemed appropriate for this thread -- particularly for the people saying "Never ever try to take a gun away because you'll get yourself killed!"

From http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7054446

Burglar Shot and Killed by Homeowner

Sep 10, 2007 07:25 PM PDT


Homeowner Shoots Robbery Suspect in South Reno

On Monday at about 1:35 p.m. a homeowner arrived at his residence in the 400 block of Brittany Ave.

He entered his home and was almost immediately confronted by a burglar who pointed a gun at the victim and ordered him to the ground. The suspect then ordered the victim to crawl to the bathroom at the end of the hall and remain at that location while the suspect continued to burglarize the residence.

After a short time the suspect returned to the victim's location and placed a gun to his head. The victim believed he was about to be shot and he turned his head as the gun discharged. He then jumped to his feet and struggled with the suspect for the gun.

During this struggle the victim sustained two gunshot wounds to his upper body but managed to wrestle the gun from the suspect and fatally shoot the intruder.

The victim was transported to Renown Medical Center where he was admitted with non-life threatening injuries.

The suspect was declared deceased at the scene.

The suspect has not been identified at this time. The Reno Police Department's Robbery/Homicide Unit continues to investigate the shooting.
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Homeowner would definitely have been dead, shot in the head at close range, if he hadn't tried for the disarm. As it was ... he is alive and the attacker is dead.

pax
 
http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_253174151.html

74-Year-Old Man Fights Off Mugger With Tire Iron
Retired Long Island Grandfather Overcomes Attacker Outside South Shore Mall


Yes it can be done. It has been done. This old guy took the tire iron from the attacker!

If you actually practice it for a while, you can disarm fairly well. But you actually have to practice, not once, but often. Just like shooting only more.

A one time disarm class gets you nowhere if you don't keep up the practice.
 
Is it me or does nothing quite gratify like hearing about a 70-80 something yr old guy who pounds the heck out of a teenage punk who tried to jack him:D
 
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