self defense ammo

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rickyjames

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with the current ammo shortage i have been wondering just how important all the fancy self defense ammo is? i mean if you believe statistics most encounters are at very short range. is a (fill in the blank) caliber to the chest really much better in some "new improved" hp than a fmj? i see box ammo in 100 ct, 50 ct, and now with these "new improved" cartridges even 10 ct. while the counts may change, it seems the price rises with the fewer bullets in the box.

now to compare apples to apples take a 380 cartridge. the fps and bullet weights do not vary greatly between brands or types. it seems the biggest variable is bullet construction, density and how frangible it is. i have hunted with hp ammo and have had it pass right thru without much expansion and the animal dropped in its tracks dead. i have used hp ammo that hit a bone and fragmented just wounding the animal. the military uses fmj at greater distances than most civilian encounters. i'm guessing at 7 to 15 feet the type of bullet is not as important as accuracy. of course larger calibers are a greater advantage. if i had a choice i would prefer a fmj 45 than the most expensive hi tech 9mm bullet. now that being said my 45 is loaded with hp ammo and i intend to use it as long as it is available. is expensive defense ammo really worth the cost?
 
I've always followed the rule of buying expanding ammo with a good track record for HD/SD use, and finding less expensive practice ammo that provides similar recoil and POI to my defensive ammo. Practice with the cheap stuff, then load the expensive stuff for serious use. The key is to find practice ammo with shooting characteristics as close as possible to your serious ammo.

And yes, I do think the high quality defensive ammo is worth the price you pay -- but it's too expensive to practice much with.
 
It matters to a degree.

Shot placement is most important, but having a clean hole go through when a big hole could happen with good HP ammo...

Thing is, i've looked at the price of ammo in smaller boxes, even then it's around the $35-$45 per 50 range. Expensive, but about the same ratio VS FMJ ammo as it was awhile ago. It's just everything went up.

I personally won't go with stuff in anything smaller than 20 round boxes. I am planning on getting Speer Gold Dots (20 round boxes usually) so I will get them then, however right now I'm using Fiocchi XTP's. Seem as good as Hornady XTP loaded ammo, and in 50 round boxes.
 
I know FMJ will feed in all of my semi autos, not gonna spend the cash needed to try each HP and then shoot a couple hundred just to make sure they feed. Cant justify the cost and I know the FMJ will work when I need it too. I am a hunter and know that you need to hit in a good spot to take down the game, same in all shooting. Cant hit then it just dont matter what you use cause it wont work any better than a miss with anything else.
 
Let's leave .380s aside for the moment (because I use FMJ in these for penetration reasons). In other calibers like .38 spl, 9mm and bigger, I do think good hollow points are a big advantage. This is borne out by wound ballistic studies (Fackler) as well as anecdotal data (Marshall and Sanow, yes their's is anecdotal).

But, you don't have to try every hollow point in every pistol you shoot. The nice thing about revolvers is you don't have to worry about the gun feeding the ammo. In semi-autos, try ONE type of hollow point and, if it works, just buy that kind. Due to trouble finding 230 gr. Gold Dots, my favorite .45 acp defense ammo, I shoot 185 gr. Golden Sabers out of one 1911 and have just tested 230 gr. Federal HSTs in two of my 1911s. Maybe I'll eventually try the HSTs out of my others, but I'm in no big hurry to do this.
 
When addressing ammunition cost vs effectiveness, I first ask how much I am worth. And I always come up with the same answer.

Cordially, Jack
 
I am not an expert. But I pay attention to the opinions of experts.

Here is one worth pondering:

CLINT SMITH ON THE 1911 --
“The 1911 remains popular because it’s an efficient tool. In more than 30 years of experience, I’ve met more competent, serious gunmen who carry 1911’s than those who pack any other handgun. They are professionals – policemen, government agents and others who carry handguns daily because the know their live may depend on it…Me? I’ve carried a 1911 every single day for the past 20 years. It’s a very comforting gun to have at your hip. It offers a good, consistent single-action trigger pull and is wonderfully dependable. Because the 1911 is basically a defensive handgun, I’m not concerned about tight groups. I don’t bother with expanding hollowpoints that could cause feeding problems. For absolute reliability, I shoot only high-quality ball ammunition. That big .45 slug doesn’t have to expand to be effective.” From Guns and Ammo, September, 2001.

FWIW...
 
Certain ammo can make a difference but overall accuracy and reaction time are usually the deciding factor.

So for the sake of arguement lets say you have brand x and brand y.
Brand x is plain old Jane hollow point ammo and brand y is a premium name at a premium price.

If brand X works reliably for full expansion 80% of the time, thats probably pretty good.

However brand y works for full expansion 85% of the time, that probably better than x.

For myself I have premium Speer GD JHP 230 gran 45 acp that I carry for CCW, but for practice I use inexpensive ball and hollow points of the same weight as my premium rounds.

The way I figure it if I have to fire in self defense my life is worth the extra money but no I don't shoot the premium stuff except rarely.
 
I ran a box of my carry ammo to insure it feeds correctly, I use FMJ for carry ammo. The extra 20 bucks I paid to try out the Hornaday Critical Defense was cheap enough to insure I felt confident that it would feed correctly if I ever have to fire it to defend myself.
 
i mean if you believe statistics most encounters are at very short range. is a (fill in the blank) caliber to the chest really much better in some "new improved" hp than a fmj?
Click to expand...

So you're asking if premium defense ammo is better at longer ranges but not at short range? :confused:

Just the opposite. At short range the bullets will be at their highest velocity and will (all other things being equal) expand the most. Also, at short range, you want your bullets to be the most effective, because the BG will be most quickly able to injure or kill you, or to return fire most effectively.:eek:

Assuming they function reliably in your weapon, premium defense loads are always more effective than FMJs, especially in 9mm and 38 caliber rounds. How much more effective is a matter of debate, but a self-defense situation is one in which you want your hits to be as effective as possible. The only advantage to FMJs would be if the BG was wearing body armor, and most pistol-caliber FMJ's won't penetrate body armor anyway.

Asking whether you should carry FMJ's because they're cheaper than premium JHPs is sort of like asking how much you should spend on a defensive handgun. The answer is, "How much is your life worth?" :rolleyes:
 
Most defensive shootings are also over in just a few seconds, and just a few shots. In accordance, I will now begin to carry only one magazine with maybe 4 rounds in it. If that makes any sense just let me know.

Buy good ammunition, fill the magazine, and have one in the pipe.
 
Just called Barnes Bullets and bought a single box of their CorBon DPX 110gr in 9mm.

Reloaded our SD mag's last night.
 
[1] There is no magic bullet. But overall I can expect better results with a JHP than an FMJ bullet.

[2] Shot placement is king. But my hits will be no better with FMJ ammunition than with JHP ammunition.

[3] One particular set up (faster, light bullet) may work a little better than another (slower, heavier bullet) under one set of circumstances. And then again another set up might be better yet under different circumstances. But you can not know in advance exactly what the circumstances of you nasty encounter, if any, will be. So everything is going to be a compromise.

[4] Therefore, I am generally comfortable with any available, good quality, commercial JHP ammunition from a reputable maker as long as I've confirmed personally that it functions reliably in my gun and that I can shoot it accurately in my gun.

And Doc Intrepid, your Clint Smith quote is 9 years old. There has been a lot of improvement of JHP bullet design in the last 9 years. And my 1911s feed commercial JHPs from reputable manufacturers just fine.
 
I believe it's mostly hype, I think we all buy into names and packaging. I know I do. I want a "hot" defense load, jackets for the range, hp for "what ever". :rolleyes:
 
grumpybutt said:
I believe it's mostly hype, I think we all buy into names and packaging. I know I do. I want a "hot" defense load, jackets for the range, hp for "what ever".
Click to expand...
I guess that's why pretty much every police agency uses JHP these days.
 
Is expensive defense ammo really worth the cost?

I don’t know the answer, but I do know that good high quality ammo is well worth the cost! So carry what you feel comfortable with, if it’s the most expensive, newest boutique, ammo or government surplus so be it. If you are concerned with the cost carry the best and practice with the ammo you can afford to shoot. I’m now shooting 2 rounds of 38 special +P for every .357 magnum round I shoot. This can be a little pricey but to me the cost is well worth it in the long run.
 
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