Seat Belt Laws: At Any Cost

sendec said:
I cannot speak for the other cops here, but I havent been forced to engage in confrontations lately
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Correct me if I'm wrong. You are no longer an active duty LEO are you? Wanna share with the class what you currently do?
Rich
 
Well, you know the dangerous anarchist types who refuse to pay tickets for solely self-harming behavior. Next thing you know, they cook meth and burglarize homes.

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
 
"I have already posted the alternative:
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In NC it's against the law not to pay your property taxes. Failure to do so: You can't renew your registration or license. Simple. Effective. Not one person has died in the enforcement action at DMV yet."

Except that it doesn't work if the person insists on being a scofflaw and drives without a license or registration.

Tim
 
Except that it doesn't work if the person insists on being a scofflaw and drives without a license or registration.
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Of course it doesn't. And persons who don't recycle might go on to "bigger" crimes. So, why even bother with intermediate steps when we can just fill the jails and prisons with these potential criminals?

I feel safer already. :rolleyes:
Rich
 
"Well, you know the dangerous anarchist types who refuse to pay tickets for solely self-harming behavior. "

But then, that's the point, isn't it? If you refuse to pay the ticket, you have two choices: go to court and fight, or do nothing. If you fight and lose, you must pay the ticket or you will go to jail. If you do nothing, a warrant will be issued for your arrest. If a cop discovers that you have an outstanding warrant, you should expect to go to jail, although as we've seen here, some officers are given some latitude.

Tim
 
But then, that's the point, isn't it? If you refuse to pay the ticket, you have two choices: go to court and fight, or do nothing. If you fight and lose, you must pay the ticket or you will go to jail. If you do nothing, a warrant will be issued for your arrest. If a cop discovers that you have an outstanding warrant, you should expect to go to jail, although as we've seen here, some officers are given some latitude.
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Exactly.
 
I am the executive director of a multijurisdiction police training facility. I hold commissions with three different LE agencies and work with them as time allows, on a volunteer basis. I have worked for state, county and local agencies on a full time basis in the past.

That's what I do, what about you? Where does your wealth of knowledge in police practice spring from?

So "Failure to Appear" to a court order is an inconsequential offense. Tell it to da judge. I'll let the next magistrate who issues a warrant know that he is being "absurd"
 
" Of course it doesn't. And persons who don't recycle might go on to "bigger" crimes. So, why even bother with intermediate steps when we can just fill the jails and prisons with these potential criminals?"

I care nothing about the crimes and infractions that someone *might* commit. All I care about is that someone charged with an offense (in this case with a seatbelt infraction) answer the charge as a responsible adult.

Tim
 
I am the executive director of a multijurisdiction police training facility. I hold commissions with three different LE agencies and work with them as time allows, on a volunteer basis. I have worked for state, county and local agencies on a full time basis in the past.
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Like I said; you're not an active duty police officer, so you can't possible have been "forced into confrontation recently". Training budding Forest Rangers is not exactly what I call "police work".

what about you? Where does your wealth of knowledge in police practice spring from?
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The Bill of Rights. :D

Rich
 
"Of course it doesn't."

So you acknowledge that some people will ignore summonses......and what should we do with these people? Ignore them 'til they go away? Give'em a double-dog-dare summons?
 
Is this were this is going, you cannot tread water fast enough so we'll start the ad hominem attacks?

Ever been a cop?

Ever been thru an academy?

Ever been to law school?

Ever been arrested?

When was the last time you completed a course on criminal procedure?

When was the last time you testified in court?

Direct answers please
 
So you acknowledge that some people will ignore summonses......and what should we do with these people?
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Why, you arrest them of course. This entire debate, however, is not about whether we should arrest; it's about whether we should immediately issue arrest warrants for administrative violations rather than taking one or two simple and effective intermediate steps first.

What's next? Issue arrest warrants for building code violations? "Sir, you received our notice that your grass is overgrown, in violation of the town landscape code. You have failed to come into compliance. Turn around and place your hands behind your back. You are under arrest."
Rich
 
Would this have been effective in the instant case?
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Texas already has a non-renewal program set up for people who fail to pay or appear in court for violations (chapter 706 of the Transportation Code). With that in mind, I would have to say that apparantly it wasn't effective, since two years later Mr. Vera still hadn't resolved his fine.
 
Wait a sec , I wanna be thrilled by your brilliance, but I am just dying to be impressed by your qualifications. I showed ya mine, now pony up, expert.
 
"rather than taking one or two simple and effective intermediate steps first."

Cite me the study were you learned of how effective these alternate steps were. Id start at the National Institute of justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics. Happy hunting.
 
Is this were this is going, you cannot tread water fast enough so we'll start the ad hominem attacks?
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Ooooh, appears I hit a nerve. However, there was no ad hominem involved, sendec. Simple clarification of the facts. You have repeatedly claimed on this board that you are an active duty LEO. You're not [anymore]. You're a teacher in a quasi-LEO program.

As to the rest of your scree, have we now come to the point that only those who have been thru the Academy are fit to judge the effectiveness, legality and common sense of the laws we live under? The condescension of the very concept is simply breathtaking.
Rich
 
Your're starting to sound like Cindy Sheehan: Bbbbbbutttttt the big mean bloodthirsty gummit KILLED somebody, thru no fault of his own.........
 
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