scored a German Luger

Hi, Trigger,

Can you let us know what kind of ammunition is so unsuitable for the P.08 and P.38 that it will crack slides and breechblocks? Photos of some of those guns and photos or descriptions of the ammo would help.

FWIW, I was told and read for many years that German 9mm ammunition with steel cases/bullets and black seal would blow up a Luger, or blow up a P.38 but not a Luger, or vice versa. I wondered why any army would issue ammunition that would destroy its own guns, but then found that the described ammo was just tropical pack, sealed to keep out moisture and worked just fine in any German 9mm, including the MP's.

Jim
 
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Lee Jurras, back when he ran Super Vel and had the test gear, looked at the allegedly "hot" German WWII issue ammo.

He found that chamber pressures were in the normal range.
High velocity from some varieties was due to light weigh iron core or sintered iron bullets.
Bright flash and loud report were probably due to wartime powder without the luxury of flash inhibitors.
 
Supposedly, the "hot" 9mm was for submachineguns. But the Germans issued a common 9mm ammo, and AFAIK, there was no effort to segregate pistol from SMG ammo. I have heard the same thing repeatedly, about not only 9mm, but also about 7.62x25. Again the question:

Why would any army issue ammunition which it knows with absolute certainty will blow up its own guns?

The only case I know of about warnings was not German, but British. They marked US commercial 9mm "NOT FOR STEN" because it was too WEAK, not because it was too powerful.

And the Italians did issue 9mm SMG ammo that can damage the old Brixia/Glisenti, but that pistol was long out of service by WWII.

As to modern NATO spec ammo blowing up Lugers, P.38's, Colt commanders, and even M9's, all I can say is baloney. Supposedly, it is for submachine guns, but no one seems to know which 9mm SMGs are being issued to US or allied troops.

Jim
 
Yes My Bad , I sent the conversation in the direction of 124 grain bullet . After checking the article and a add for P38's they do not recomend +P ammo and says nothing about 124 grain bullets not being recomended .
 
There was some very stout Hirtenberger 9mm on the market a while back.

And reading in The Handgunner, Ltd., back when an Englishman might own a pistol, it was commonly said that the British Two Zed (2Z) 9mm was a Browning killer, but great in a Patchett.
 
I was really glad its an imperial Luger WWI while I would have taken it no matter what I'm glad its not a Nazi Luger

Gary
 
The matching numbers make it a nice Luger. The correct magazine would have a tinned body and a wood base, and be ser# to the gun.

Just FYI, The Standard Catalog of Luger (Davis, 2006) lists a 1914 Luger in excellent condition at $1,000.

The gun is nice, but is not in "excellent" condition.

Luger prices seem to ebb and flow, sometimes remaining relatively static for years, then climbing to a new plateau.

while I would have taken it no matter what I'm glad its not a Nazi Luger
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While I understand many people have entirely valid personal reasons for not wanting anything with Nazi markings or symbols, I have never understood the people who think that someone who does have such a gun(s) is somehow espousing Nazi ideals. (yes, there ARE people like that, I've even met some).

The way I've always looked at it, the fact that I have the gun means that THEY LOST!!!! To me, its a piece of history, and the bad guys don't have it anymore.
 
Beautiful luger. I'm very jealous
I had a chance to pick one up a few months back but passed because it looked to good. I was concerned it was a refinish and my knowledge of lugers is week at best. Ill admire yours and keep searching for mine
enjoy it
 
Remember, lots of people who later became top nazi's fought or served in WWI. Hitler, Goering, Himmler, Borrmann, Rohm, Hess... And they didn't rise to power in a vacuum. Nor was WWI a more noble nationalistic power grab than WWII, nor was it very much less deadly. Not much that is German from that era is untainted by extremism, with or without swastika stamps.
 
Nice Luger! I'm sure you'll enjoy owning it. I have a 1913 DWM mismatched numbers P08 that I bought in a pawn shop in 1975. It was my first centerfire handgun and has been a lot of fun over the years. I shoot it once or twice a year and over the decades surely have a few thousand rounds through it with only one broken part. I put 50 rounds of Federal Champion through it early this year with no malfunctions. I use Mec-Gar magazines which work very well. Original P08 mags aren't reliable for me and they're too valuable to upgrade with modern springs and followers.

I'm not saying you should shoot yours, that's up to you, but they sure are fun and always draw a crowd at the range. I do have a nearly pristine 1941 byf/Mauser that I'd never shoot, well maybe some day, just once!
 
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While I understand many people have entirely valid personal reasons for not wanting anything with Nazi markings or symbols, I have never understood the people who think that someone who does have such a gun(s) is somehow espousing Nazi ideals. (yes, there ARE people like that, I've even met some).

The way I've always looked at it, the fact that I have the gun means that THEY LOST!!!! To me, its a piece of history, and the bad guys don't have it anymore.
Click to expand...

I agree with your last comment. I have a Nazi-issue 1940 Mauser Luger, but it's the only thing I own with such markings on it and I am definitely no Nazi sympathizer (my own mother was nearly killed as a baby by those thugs). However I look at it as an important piece of world history. We can't ignore the things that happened or try to bury and forget them, lest they someday be repeated. I am hoping when the time comes that I don't need it anymore it'll go to a museum.
 
Thanks for the info guys I was planning to only use Winchester white box 115 grain 9mm in this one. I wasn't planing to shoot it much due to age and availability of parts.

Its a very different point of view about Nazi items seeing it as hey I have it cause we beat them. I never thought of that before :)

is it true that Lugers are prone to breakage? Its what I've heard over the years?

Gary
 
Lugers are very dirt and magazine-sensitive, but they are otherwise fairly robust handguns. The fear over breakage lies in the fact that most parts were number-matched to the gun, and in the event you break something like the firing pin (not likely, but possible) you've just compromised its collectability because any part you find will not be the like-numbered original. That's why most guys who shoot these pistols prefer guns that are already mismatched, so in the event of parts breakage they don't have to care about what they replace it with.
 
I also find the Luger to be robust. As I mentioned above I've shot my 1913 DWM continuously since I got it in 1975. The single broken part was the large axle pin at the rear of the toggle and that didn't even stop functioning. I discovered the problem when I got back home and disassembled the P08 for cleaning. Very simple and cheap part to replace but as dsk said, the mismatched part number would lessen the value of an otherwise collectable P08. It didn't matter a bit to my shooter.

Valuepak FMJ like Federal Champion and WWB work well in mine.
 
While the Luger's reputation for being dirt sensitive is true, remember that it comes from the era of trench warfare. Living in the dirt& mud 24/7 puts a different kind of stain on a pistol's reliability than a normal civilian lifestyle does.

Our 1911 got a reputation for "always" working, not because it always did (nothing does) but because it was less sensitive to dirty conditions than the other handguns of that era.

My reference says that 35,000 Lugers were made in 1914. Its not super rare, but it is one of the less common guns.

My Luger is an S/42 1936, one of 89,500 made that year for the German Army.

Its over 100, metallurgy back then wasn't what it was in the 40s, and not even close to what we have today. Don't push it, and it should last for a long time yet.
 
Finally picked it up today and these numbers look ok
luger1_zpsgbw0r3cy.jpg

But is the far right number in this pic correct?
luger2_zpspbtx0akf.jpg


Gary
 
Its in nice looking shape, for its age.

I'm no expert, but I don't think the number on the rear toggle was factory applied. It just doesn't "match" the look of the stamped numbers, and I've never seen another Luger with its number there, or done that way.

Notice also it is on a slight angle relative to the edge of the toggle. makes me think it was done "freehand" by someone later.

Might have been done by an owning unit, but its not the "unit marking" style I've seen before, and its not a unit ID, its the ser#.

Still, its a Luger, and that means it a nice score, whether its a top grade collector's piece, or a "shooter grade".

They certainly aren't making any more, everyone who tries fails on the market. And there have been none made marked 1914 since...well, 1914!:D
 
Maybe this is what is meant by "force numbered" in Russian capture Luger parlance. That is, renumbered spare or salvaged parts to match the most of the gun.
 
It's not unusual for Russian Captures to have all matching serial numbered parts. While the Russians were willing to throw together K98 the P08 required more effort and fitting. The electro-penciling on the toggle is almost certainly redundant.
 
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