Scenario - Hot Dog

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Well, since this IS a hypothetical senario....

Make sure there are no witnesses around...

Put on gloves...

Using the shotgun, shoot the idiot...

Recover your spent shells...

Set the dog free...

Use the remaining gas and the lighter to burn the guys body and the gloves...

Get back on the road again...

Clean shotgun and dispose of it, along with the spent shells and the unspent ones, in the next county or state.
 
Ha, made y'all think:

1. The crime is the arson, not the dog

2. You have a legal precedent for preventing it with lethal force. You don't have to see the fire, the gas and lighter are good enough.

3. Do you risk your life for the dog? Do you risk your life for the arson? Fires can be bad in the country. They are potentially lethal. Dave is right on when he evaluates the personal risk vs. legality vs. the morality

4. Saving a dog is a side effect of the initial legal question. Is that clear now?

5. Why do folks think they will be able to beat the guy up? Going hand to hand with a sociopath seems not a good plan to me. Of course, we can beat up anyone because we are righteous.

6. Greg - I've driven slowly across a few country TX roads - you could see this happening.

Good fun for a scenario
 
Nah. I got tools - literally. In my saddlebags is a 15" crescent (sp) wrench. Busts anything human it comes in contact with when wielded with sufficient force. On my feet are steel-toes engineer boots. They hurt a lot. On my left boot is a spur - makes a truly fearsome punching weapon when held in the fist. On my right hip is a Gerber Mark II.
There are more.
There are many ways to de-fur a feline...

Biker
 
Some of y'all need a long rest in a room with padded walls. Biker needs a straight-jacket and anti-psychotic medication on top of that.

It's an animal ferchristsake.
 
It's a dog. I'd do the same for the old, infirm, women or children.
BTW, my meds are working just fine. The VA takes care of me that way.
~wink~

Biker
 
I love dogs, so I would have to stop it, shoot the guy in the leg to stop him, and if he brandishes a weapon I would ventilate him.
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How can nobody have jumped all over this one?

Education time, it either warrants lethal force or it does not. It does not warrant "a little" lethal force.

You shoot flame boy in the leg "because you didn't want to risk killing him" is an immediate admission that you did not consider this a warranted lletal force encounter. You are guilty at the least with assault with a deadly weapon. Aside from the aorta the largest blood vessel in the body runs through the leg... plenty of people DIE from being shot in the leg. They do not die immediately but die they do. Many more are PERMANENTLY CRIPPLED.

Working of the premise that the only universally accepted grounds for letal force in all 50 states is the immediate fear of lethal force used upon you with no ability to escape then I would advise against shooting the pyro. I would have no problem giving him a full dose of OC, calling the police and shooting if he attacked me!


Many of us love dogs but they are ANIMALS. Dogs are not people and if it was just me and my beloved dog trapped with no food I know which one of us would not starve to death. The same applies to Shamoo, Flipper, Lassie, or any other animal. Crazy lawsuits aside you are NOT going to be able to get a court to accept the threat to a dog's life is on the same level as the threat to a human life. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Especially not going to happen when the question is were you justified in taking a human life.

If your jurisdiction allows the use of deadly force to prevent the destruction of property or illegal killing of animals then fine. You have to proove you know the dog was not his to back of the "destruction of property" defense though...
 
Glenn said:
1. The crime is the arson, not the dog

2. You have a legal precedent for preventing it with lethal force. You don't have to see the fire, the gas and lighter are good enough.
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Depends where you are. In NY you are only authorized to use lethal force to prevent the arson of an occupied structure. Burning anything else is not considerred warranting lethal force (except for a person but that comes under murder.) Dogs do not count as "occupied" and neither do the flees occupying them.
 
I used to live in NY. Now I live in Texas. I posted the relevant TX law.

One might not want to intervene but I agree that beating the miscreant with a potentially lethal blunt object seems nonsensical to me. Call the law, OC him or shoot him. But going WWE is silly.
 
Glenn...

Potentially lethal? Yup. But I've never seen anyone die of a broken collarbone, busted kneecap, broken forearm, etc..
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
You and I have conflicting ideas concerning "silly".

Biker
 
Beating people with hardenned chromolly steel wrenches or going for your Gerber knife would be considerred lethal force in court. So would steel toed engineer boots.

Why do you have a spur on your boot, does your motorcyle not listen to you?
 
I would do my best to prevent the dog from being torched -- try to put myself between the guy and the dog. If the guy was a serious threat to me, I might try pepper spray. But if I shot him -- and he deserves to be shot -- I don't think I'd do too well in court.

People who do that kind of thing to animals will easily do the same thing to a human being. On the other hand, I like dogs better than I like a lot of human beings....
 
Why do you have a spur on your boot, does your motorcyle not listen to you?
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In our group, when somone cares about you they get 2 spurs and give you one, you each wear one in hopes of keeping that person (biker rider) in our prayers for safety. Least that is why my wife wears one given to her from a biker gal we ride with. Her husband and I ride it up a bit :) run hard run fast never slow down :) we are bikers and ride to live. Cant explain it more than that.
 
If it was my dog, the guy would get shot... Period! That is assuming that she did not tear him from limb to limb first. 85 lbs of akita is a lot of dog to contend with. Pound for pound, they are one of the toughest breeds out there.

If it was someone elses dog, its still against the law. how could that even be in question? That is animal cruelty in one of its worst forms. Imagine being burned alive. I would draw down on the guy and tell him to drop the friggin lighter. I would be dialing 911 with my other hand. I don't think I would actually shoot even if he did torch the pooch, but I would be pretty pissed off. I believe that a human's life is worth more than an animal's life, but scum bags who do incredibly cruel things just for jollies are sub-human in my book. I would probably also take the guy's picture with my camera phone and jot down his license plate numbers if I could.
 
Drawing your weapon with no intention of shooting is one of the stupidest reactions I can think of in any situation. Some people are not afraid of guns... especially lunatics. They will likely respond with the same deadly force that you threatened, but were not willing to back up, and they will be right to do so both legally and morally.
 
Once you see a few dozen 40 gallon drums filled with perfectly good pets that nobody wants, things may come into focus.
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Thats exactly why I turned down a job at an animal shelter 2 years ago. The pay wasnt too shabby, but when they told me i'd have to put down unwanted dogs and cats, I thanked them for their time and walked out the door. A few days of killing dogs and I'd eat a bullet myself.
 
Drawing your weapon with no intention of shooting is one of the stupidest reactions I can think of in any situation. Some people are not afraid of guns... especially lunatics. They will likely respond with the same deadly force that you threatened, but were not willing to back up, and they will be right to do so both legally and morally.
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No... shooting just because you have drawn your gun is THE stupidest thing. If you can diffuse the situation or cause a bad guy to surrender (cease his hostilities) by drawing your weapon and pointing it at him, there is no need to fire. Read the American Rifleman some time and you will see how often a gun is used for self defense without a shot being fired. Furthermore, firing even though the mere presence of a gun has ceased hostilities becomes a whole other ball game... like man slaughter or murder. You say that some people are not afraid of gun... especially lunatics. How many gun toting lunatics have you run into? More likely than not, your would be attacker will not be a lunatic, but someone who actually does not want to get themselves shot. This is not to say I won't shoot if necessary... Just that I WON'T shoot if NOT necessary.
 
Fine... but I still maintain that drawing a weapon of any kind in defense of an animal is the act of a moronic madman.

The people who save their own hindquarters and are written up in the Armed Citizen article every month have never been dimwits pulling iron to save some ranom critters as far as I know. I've never seen one in there, anyway.
 
but I still maintain that drawing a weapon of any kind in defense of an animal is the act of a moronic madman.
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Folks do it all the time....
Many nations have anti-poaching laws to protect certain species and game wardens to enforce those laws.
Start taking pot shots at an American Bald Eagle and see the reaction of the wildlife and game officials.

But more to the point of this thread...
It's not about "defense of an animal", it's about ridding our society of a sick demented bastard who gets his jollys by hurting defensless animals.
Anyone who will set a live dog on fire will set a live human on fire...it's just a matter of time.
 
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