Scenario 2: What would you do?

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jrsower

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I try to come up with realistic, believable scenarios that could actually happen, nothing so unrealistic that it belongs in the I'm-a-one-man-death-dealing-force-to-be-reckoned-with category.

Here it is...

The rest of your family is away somewhere, vacation, beach, just somewhere that isn't home and you don't expect them to be coming back anytime soon. You're coming home from a quick trip to the grocery store. You have a plastic grocery bag in your left hand with whatever in it, milk, hot wings, etc. You unlock your door with your other hand and push it open. You see in your living room two men. One is unarmed (at least visibly) and holding your tv, vcr, whatever. The other (read this part carefully) is standing in front of your desk, cabinet, or whatever else you might have in your house. He has one hand in the drawer, obviously pushing things around, trying to see if there's anything worth stealing. The other hand holds a shotgun. It's hanging at his side. He's obviously in condition white since no one was home when they arrived. Both men are approx. 15 feet away and immediately turn when you push the door open.

I understand that there's a lot of unknowns at this point in the scenario. I have no idea what the two theives will do now. What I want to know is what you'd do. You have your CCW with you.

Those of you with dogs that roam the house can either sit this one out or share what you'd do if you didn't have a 300 pound Doberman with surgically removed vocal chords keeping the fort down while you're away.
 
With the family gone, there's nothing in the house worth getting shot for. I don't know how legal this is, but I would run to a safer place, hide, and call the police on the cell phone when I had the chance(best physical weapon you have). I would also draw the pistol in case they give chase, and if they do, I would think that justifies my shooting them.
 
Sorry

JRSower, Most scenarios are "force to be reckoned with"scenarios unless you(the reader) are out of the picture. Most of us believes that "the buck stops here," otherwise we wouldn't be regulars on this web site.

Having said that, we all vary on where we draw the line.

In your scenario, I'd draw my CCW while retreating for some good cover where I can watch the house as best I can. As soon as I get in a decent defensive position, I pull out my trusty cellphone and call for the cavalry. Stay on the cell to keep the troops posted and keep the BG's inside as best I can.

Course it's touch and go...you could have gone the other route if one of the BG's had raised his barrel of his weapon in your direction.

Some years back when I first moved into my present house, I had my house broken into 10 times in one year. So I know the feelings.
Good luck on finding your answers.
 
With the family gone, there's nothing in the house worth getting shot for. I don't know how legal this is, but I would run to a safer place, hide, and call the police on the cell phone when I had the chance(best physical weapon you have). I would also draw the pistol in case they give chase, and if they do, I would think that justifies my shooting them.
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Since your stuff ain't worth defending, send it to me.

If I saw some bastard in my house with a gun, I'd make them stop it.
 
Hmmm. I'd throw the plastic bag at them while retreating and drawing my CCW. I'd seek cover, and watch the door, and wait. If I had a cell phone on I'd call 911 and fill em in, if not I would watch and wait. If they showed themselves, I'd probably drop the guy, if not, continue to wait.
 
Since your stuff ain't worth defending, send it to me.
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Eehhh, wrong idea. Ask yourself this: is there any object (not person) in your house you would give your life for? I can't think of anything in my house worth dying for. In a situation like this, it is your goal to first minimize risk to yourself and stay safe before you try to increase the risk to your assailant(s) (like trying to shoot them). Even when the sh!t hits the fan, you can still avoid some trouble.
 
Retreat if I could and call 000 (911 equivalent here in Australia) with my mobile phone, which I always carry. At the same time, I would draw my pistol.

If one pointed a gun, I would be forced to run like Hell (this could very well be the better option) and if I couldn't; well, I would shoot the guy. Simple as that.

Blasting the bad guys should be a last resort I believe. Especially here in Australia.
 
My alarm would be sounding loudly, already called the police, so I doubt they would be taking their time perusing my belongings.

But given the scenario: I would drop my bag and grab my G-26 which is in my pocket or my waistband depending on dress and holster selection. Pull front door partly closed in front of me as cover (solid 1.5" oak door)crouch and I would shoot the shotgun holder from behind my front door three shots, or until he was on the floor prone.

I would then shoot the TV holder.

I would call police again and advise them that the robbers were armed and now down, and being held by an armed homeowner, so please dont shoot me when you arrive.

:p

I will assume that since they have a gun my life is in immediate danger. I will not give a warning, that's for the police, my job is self defense. A man with a gun in my house he means to kill me and I fear for my life, there is no time for retreat, I will immediately open fire from behind cover. Visibly armed felon first, unarmed felon three shots or less later. repeat as needed if anyone moves.
 
bujinzero seems like he's on the same track as my suggestion.

Tactically, you only have two basic maneuvers. You can close distance or create distance. Do the one that makes the most sense for the given situation.

In this case, I would try to retreat to a known position of safety--back the way I came (I just cleared the area when I walked up). Then I would get to a position of cover and call for police.

You could also close and engage. Not as preferrable as retreating to cover and waiting for a LEO response but that may be the best alternative available. Which one do you take out first? The nearest. And as fast as possible. Distance may not allow you to draw first (the shotgun's potentially available much quicker than your handgun since it's not concealed), so you may have to engage hand-to-hand and earn the right to draw your gun to shoot the other guy. James Keating has an article in the latest issue of Black Belt about using a Bad Guy as mobile cover. That might be a viable option, too.

All the questions like this are situationally dependent on so many variables and there is no one "right" answer. One day you might close, the next you might retreat. Thinking these things out is definitely the best way to formulate a plan (you certainly won't figure one out spontaneously).
 
my opinion

You are out gunned. One has a shotgun in hand. Even if you are able to draw and point your weapon in the same amount of time it takes to raise his shotgun he still has the advantage, and while your focused on shotgun guy, meanwhile the other guy is drawing his Lorcin. Under this situation I would move out of the house while drawing and seeking cover. If it was possible for family members to be in the house, I would throw the bag at shotgun guy while moving and drawing. Then I would fire until I either couldn't or didn't have to.
 
the guy with the shotgun lost his rights by having it in my home; I'd put 2 COM etc etc.

as far as the other guy, in this state I very likely wouldn't be charged if I did shoot him, but I wouldn't unless he showed force. that's the view from the comfort of my armchair at this point. in the heat of the moment, who knows? all I do know on the given facts is what I said first, the guy with the shotgun has to go.

--alex
 
One of the BGs already holds a shotgun in his hand. You in contrast have your shopping bags and most likely your keys in the other hand. There's no way you'll be able to shoot the shotgunner first! If you try that you're going to experience a (maybe) heroic but certainly senseless death.
Even if something/someone was in the house that is worth dying for you better go for cover first while drawing your gun and get back immediately after you've improved your chances. You can't help anyone if you're dead! If you're sure that it is "only" about property stay in cover, call the police and wait for them to handle the situation.
 
The other hand holds a shotgun. It's hanging at his side. He's obviously in condition white since no one was home when they arrived. Both men are approx. 15 feet away and immediately turn when you push the door open.
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My draw and fire from behind the front door is an action. they will have to react to it. They will have to think when they see me if they want to run or fight since I have surprised them.
Since an action beats a reaction, my unhesitating dive for cover and draw and fire will beat the bad guys reaction. So long as I dont hesitate, I will have the drop on them.

Cover behind front door shoot shotgun man first and TV man second if he does not trurn tail and run fast enough.
 
Well, the one with my TV is pretty well ballistically protected from handgun fire, at least that is what I have learned from this and other forums. Given the whole alteration of time perception in the situation, everything turns to slow motion as I do a tremendously quick mental review of my home owner's insurance that tells me that if I shoot my own TV, they won't pay for it, but if a burglar/robber walks away with it, I have 100% replacement cost. Realizing that there is nobody in my home that I care about and nothing worth dying for, I simply retrograde as fast as possible from the premises and call 911. I then go to the neighbors house, ask to borrow their video camera, and then watch the exciting action as the cops arrive and these guys try to take my TV and end up destroying it. In the end, I have a new TV via insurance, a video tape that I submit to the World's Dumbest Criminals for which I win $1000, and I forget to return the video camera and so now I have one of those as well.

And to think if I had used all my training, I could have shot two bad guys in my home, risked biohazard contamination from thier bodily fluids, risked injury by them on me, risked repairs associated with holes in the walls, new carpeting, etc.

What a no brainer!!! There is no way in hell that in the circumstances described that I would try to effect a stop of the situation where I was out manned, potentially out gunned, and the one gunman who was armed was carrying ballistic protection in the form of my TV. I work hard for my belongings, but I won't die for them. I also work hard to pay my insurance. Insurance can die for my goodies. That is why it is there.

By the way, for those of you who don't know, the house was full of bad guys. You could only see two from the door.
 
Exactly what I was thinking, Double Naught Spy.

You only SEE two. There could be several more a heartbeat away.

My first inclination was to blast the mofo's away, shotgunner first. It's my home, after all. I've every right to bury them. But what of the unknown burglars?

Retreat is the wisest option. Use your home court advantage to gain cover and avoid confrontation. Only engage if retreat is not possible. Call for help.

As much as this kind of invasion enrages me, it's only stuff, and my loved ones aren't being threatened. I'd let this one go.

If family members were home, all bets are off. :mad:
 
For this scenario, I agree toss bag in high arc towards center of room and back out asap while drawing CCW.

OK, scenario 2a:
You unlock your door with your other hand and push it open. You see in your living room two men.
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Rather than seeing them as you enter, suppose you have an enrty hall/foyer. You unlock the door, put you keys on the door side table, close the door, pass thru the enrty hall and then see the BG's?
 
Eehhh, wrong idea. Ask yourself this: is there any object (not person) in your house you would give your life for? I can't think of anything in my house worth dying for.
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:barf:

Is nothing worth dying for? Dignity, honor, are these not more valuable then our temporal existence? One's home is one's castle. I would defend the sanctity of my family's home just as I would defend the sanctity of my nation were it to be invaded by a foreign nation, with as much vigor and passion. Would you be willing to risk your life to take a stand against the thugs who are overrunning our neighborhoods, cities, and nation? If you would not protect your belongings and house (mere property), would you defend our Constitution, (a mere document) or our nation's form of government (merely one political philosophy). Life is not worth the destruction of everything that makes life worth living. Rape, of myself or another, is an invasion of dignity that I would be willing to risk my life to prevent, even if I knew I could survive the encounter through inaction. Property crime is also an invasion of privacy and honor. Life is not more valuable then one's principles.

A Nation of Cowards

I know I will probably get flamed for being a vigilante, I will be accused of being rash and reckless, naive and idealistic. I accept this. My opinion has been carefullly thought through, and I have come to the conclusion that I would be willing to take a stand in any situation to preserve my principles. If that means defending the pizza guy in a holdup, or the single mother being harrassed in the inner city, or sticking up for an abused friend against their boyfriend, or other situations in which my personal safety is not directly threatened, then I would do so. The Founding Fathers considered these to be fundamental rights, rights worth dying for, and they did include property rights in this list. If I die, so be it, at least I have given my life protecting the lives, liberty, and property of others weaker then I. If this makes me an idealist, then I am in good company with the Wallaces, Patrick Henrys, Bonhoefers, and Kings in our world. As Martin Luther said:

On this I take my stand. I can do no other. God help me.
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