turtlehead
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Well alrighty then.
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Scavenging firecrackers Black Powder for reloading 12 ga shotshells
- Thread starter TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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TheGuyOfSouthamerica
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For example:
308 Winchester
180 grain lead bullet
Lyman Reloading Handbook states:
Unique max 15.5 grain which gives an velocity of 1692 fps and 38000 psi
IMR 4894 max 39 grain which gives an velocity of 2373 fps and 39100 psi.
Unique would be the DETONATING blast powder.
IMR 4894 would be the DEFLAGRATING propellant powder.
What about that reasoning?
308 Winchester
180 grain lead bullet
Lyman Reloading Handbook states:
Unique max 15.5 grain which gives an velocity of 1692 fps and 38000 psi
IMR 4894 max 39 grain which gives an velocity of 2373 fps and 39100 psi.
Unique would be the DETONATING blast powder.
IMR 4894 would be the DEFLAGRATING propellant powder.
What about that reasoning?
turtlehead
New member
Why don't you go read up on the subject?
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Here a quotation: copyrigth source is
«Gunpowder.https://www.quora.com/What-types-of-powders-can-be-used-as-a-projectile-propellant-besides-gunpowder
Seriously, though, the problem with this answer is that the common definition of "gunpowder" is "any powder that can fire a gun." There hasn't been a single formulation called "gunpowder" ever. Even in the days of black powder, people used different chemical formulations that produced the same effects. Nowadays, modern propellants can contain large numbers of different components formulated in any number of different ways. They are all called "gunpowder" in a colloquial sense, but can contain nitroglycerin, nitrocellulose, nitroguanidine, and other high explosive substances.
Theoretically speaking, any substance that can self-oxidize and produce large quantities of gas can be a projectile propellant. It's just that we seem to have found all of the ones that combine practicality with performance and have collectively called them "gunpowder."»
«Gunpowder.https://www.quora.com/What-types-of-powders-can-be-used-as-a-projectile-propellant-besides-gunpowder
Seriously, though, the problem with this answer is that the common definition of "gunpowder" is "any powder that can fire a gun." There hasn't been a single formulation called "gunpowder" ever. Even in the days of black powder, people used different chemical formulations that produced the same effects. Nowadays, modern propellants can contain large numbers of different components formulated in any number of different ways. They are all called "gunpowder" in a colloquial sense, but can contain nitroglycerin, nitrocellulose, nitroguanidine, and other high explosive substances.
Theoretically speaking, any substance that can self-oxidize and produce large quantities of gas can be a projectile propellant. It's just that we seem to have found all of the ones that combine practicality with performance and have collectively called them "gunpowder."»
turtlehead
New member
The subject of flash powders. Not gun powders.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Another nice testimony. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=81301#/topics/81301?page=1&_k=4femrx
«Nov 08, 2009 · #14
I've got a book by an American naval lieutenant who, when the Japanese conquered the Philippines during WWII, ignored the surrender order and took to the jungle, joining up with other allied soldiers who also refused to quit to form a guerilla movement. They were constantly short of supplies, and came up with various improvisations. Naturally, they reloaded; and for gunpowder they'd steal Japanese landmines and bombs, take out the high explosives inside, cut it with ground wood powder and sawdust, and pack that in the shell casings. It made a .30 caliber kick like a .50 caliber, but the soldiers loved it because if you shot a Japanese soldier with one of THOSE rounds, he went down and didn't get back up.
For the bullets themselves they started out using the soft lead from car batteries, but soon found it fouled the barrels too much. Then they discovered that the solid brass curtain rods commonly used in Philippine houses were just the right diameter for a rifle bullet, all they had to do was cut the rods into proper lengths, sand them down to the right shape, and they were good to go.
One should never underestimate the ability of people to keep fighting if they refuse to quit.»
«Nov 08, 2009 · #14
I've got a book by an American naval lieutenant who, when the Japanese conquered the Philippines during WWII, ignored the surrender order and took to the jungle, joining up with other allied soldiers who also refused to quit to form a guerilla movement. They were constantly short of supplies, and came up with various improvisations. Naturally, they reloaded; and for gunpowder they'd steal Japanese landmines and bombs, take out the high explosives inside, cut it with ground wood powder and sawdust, and pack that in the shell casings. It made a .30 caliber kick like a .50 caliber, but the soldiers loved it because if you shot a Japanese soldier with one of THOSE rounds, he went down and didn't get back up.
For the bullets themselves they started out using the soft lead from car batteries, but soon found it fouled the barrels too much. Then they discovered that the solid brass curtain rods commonly used in Philippine houses were just the right diameter for a rifle bullet, all they had to do was cut the rods into proper lengths, sand them down to the right shape, and they were good to go.
One should never underestimate the ability of people to keep fighting if they refuse to quit.»
turtlehead
New member
I'm thinking focus is not your strong suit.
Look. If you want to do stupid things, have at it. Go back and reread this thread carefully. The answers to your questions are there. You just don't happen to like the answers you've been given.
Look. If you want to do stupid things, have at it. Go back and reread this thread carefully. The answers to your questions are there. You just don't happen to like the answers you've been given.
I've got a book by an American naval lieutenant who...
I have a book about a dog that flys around in his dog house with his best friend called Woodstock who is a bird. It seems to be quite entertaining to children but I never thought it would make one try to turn a dog house into an airplane...
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TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Any cientists, chemists, ingeneers, explosive experts wanting to share their thoughts on this?
Considered Posts #44 and #46 are true. For example during the siege of Vienna by the turks the europeans casted their bullets as round bullets from lead but the turks carried with them (each soldier) about an meter of cuadratic style lead wire which he cut with his knife according to needed length (the turks fired square cubes of lead from their weapons). Once the turks ran out of the lead wire they made an square mold in sand and poored lead into it about another 1 meter and off they went with an fresh lead wire ready to cut at will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwhmk-4bDS4
Regards my Picture of the 2 different powders as an bullet propellant.
Your expert opinion is much appreciated!
Considered Posts #44 and #46 are true. For example during the siege of Vienna by the turks the europeans casted their bullets as round bullets from lead but the turks carried with them (each soldier) about an meter of cuadratic style lead wire which he cut with his knife according to needed length (the turks fired square cubes of lead from their weapons). Once the turks ran out of the lead wire they made an square mold in sand and poored lead into it about another 1 meter and off they went with an fresh lead wire ready to cut at will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwhmk-4bDS4
Regards my Picture of the 2 different powders as an bullet propellant.
Your expert opinion is much appreciated!
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Lots of misinformation here. Typically, flash powders use oxidizers that are perchlorates which are less shock sensitive than chlorates. Regulation of them for shipping is by controlling quantities per package and the type of packaging. This is the same, in principle, as shipping primers, which also have shock sensitivity.
ALL gunpowder deflagrates in a gun, regardless of whether it is made of substances that are normally low explosive like black powder, or if is made of substances that are normally high explosives, like nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin, as smokeless powder is. The line between high and low explosive is fuzzy because even normally low explosives like black powder can detonate like a high explosive in great enough quantity and a strong enough initiator (tons, for black powder, IIRC, with dynamite initiator) to carry an intense enough shock wave to release energy. The more sensitive an explosive is, generally speaking, the smaller the minimum quantity for detonation is. In a firearm, detonation of smokeless powder cracks the steel by creating local pressures that can momentarily exceed half a million psi. So unless the gun shatters, you haven't seen detonation occur inside of it.
High explosive can deflagrate as long as no pressure wave strong enough to detonate it develops in the material.
Blasting powder is identical to black powder, except sodium nitrate replaces potassium nitrate because it is less expensive. The large quantities used in blasting a rock or a pit or even a tree stump is enough heat that the higher moisture content caused by the greater hygroscopic tendencies of sodium nitrate are overcome by the heat generated, where a gun may fail to fire a round with satisfactory accuracy and velocity consistency using variable water content powder. I was told decades ago that blasting powder used in mining had been replaced by charcoal and liquid oxygen. This mixture has the advantage that if a charge fails to explode, the miners just wait awhile for the LOX to evaporate and then it is safe to go see what went wrong.
The concern about a shock-sensitive powder in a firearm is that all powders exhibit exponential pressure increases as the charge quantity is increased. For black powder and smokeless powder this is very predictable, but they are made with grain size and surface area and geometry control to keep this safe to work with. The exponents are not too high. With a shock-sensitive powder the exponent can be much higher so that a modest increase in powder quantity can produce a greater incremental pressure increase than is expected during a normal gradual load work-up. The potential to reach a detonating pressure is also there with a sensitive, even though that doesn't normally occur. The perchlorates will also produce corrosive salt residue that can easily start rust forming if the relative humidity is above about 30%. So there is risk in this to both gun and shooter.
I thought I had closed this thread earlier and asked people to take the discussion to Private Messaging. Something went wrong. Let's fix that now. Insults are starting be made and that's a pretty good sign we have been baking too long.
ALL gunpowder deflagrates in a gun, regardless of whether it is made of substances that are normally low explosive like black powder, or if is made of substances that are normally high explosives, like nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin, as smokeless powder is. The line between high and low explosive is fuzzy because even normally low explosives like black powder can detonate like a high explosive in great enough quantity and a strong enough initiator (tons, for black powder, IIRC, with dynamite initiator) to carry an intense enough shock wave to release energy. The more sensitive an explosive is, generally speaking, the smaller the minimum quantity for detonation is. In a firearm, detonation of smokeless powder cracks the steel by creating local pressures that can momentarily exceed half a million psi. So unless the gun shatters, you haven't seen detonation occur inside of it.
High explosive can deflagrate as long as no pressure wave strong enough to detonate it develops in the material.
Blasting powder is identical to black powder, except sodium nitrate replaces potassium nitrate because it is less expensive. The large quantities used in blasting a rock or a pit or even a tree stump is enough heat that the higher moisture content caused by the greater hygroscopic tendencies of sodium nitrate are overcome by the heat generated, where a gun may fail to fire a round with satisfactory accuracy and velocity consistency using variable water content powder. I was told decades ago that blasting powder used in mining had been replaced by charcoal and liquid oxygen. This mixture has the advantage that if a charge fails to explode, the miners just wait awhile for the LOX to evaporate and then it is safe to go see what went wrong.
The concern about a shock-sensitive powder in a firearm is that all powders exhibit exponential pressure increases as the charge quantity is increased. For black powder and smokeless powder this is very predictable, but they are made with grain size and surface area and geometry control to keep this safe to work with. The exponents are not too high. With a shock-sensitive powder the exponent can be much higher so that a modest increase in powder quantity can produce a greater incremental pressure increase than is expected during a normal gradual load work-up. The potential to reach a detonating pressure is also there with a sensitive, even though that doesn't normally occur. The perchlorates will also produce corrosive salt residue that can easily start rust forming if the relative humidity is above about 30%. So there is risk in this to both gun and shooter.
I thought I had closed this thread earlier and asked people to take the discussion to Private Messaging. Something went wrong. Let's fix that now. Insults are starting be made and that's a pretty good sign we have been baking too long.
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