Scavenging firecrackers Black Powder for reloading 12 ga shotshells

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TheGuyOfSouthamerica

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Hi all People,

I just found out a Thing.
Since I can not get Smokeless Powder for reloading I scavenge it from 12 ga shotshells.

Now I end up with many primed empty 12 ga shotshells with wad and I Need only powder to reload them.

So I cracked up some firecrackers (they contain 3 explosive bombs + the BP launching Charge) and made following tests:

a) Only the BP (launching Charge) with an .575" Diameter round ball of about 280 grains the recoil was light (too light). This Charge had about 25 grains of BP.
b) The fine powder of 2 opened bombs and the same 280 grain round ball made more recoil and hit hard an tree giving a big muzzle Flash. The Shell got stuck in the Maverick 88 pump gun and the metal parts of the Shell showed signs of big pressure like Extractor groove of the bolt indentations and a Little flat primer. I believe the fine powder of the bombs (I put in this test 2 of the 3 bombs) have an explosive Content rather that and burning (deflagrating) Content. So caution has to be observed.
c) In this test I put the whole BP Content of an firecracker (about 25 grains) + the fine ground powder from 1 bomb and on top of that an 7/8 oz Lee Drive key slug. This Charge I consider normal since it had an about normal recoil for an 7/8 oz lead slug and went right through an Plastik bin.

All tests the rounds did not get crimped since I did not yet get my 12 ga roll crimping tool.

So I find now good use for the empty scavenged shotgun Shells. Really like that I can use all parts and even reload my 9mm Luger and 357 mag rounds.

I wonder if I will do this for my 20 ga as well but rather no.

The only negative of this is the guns are expensive and are prone to rust since BP is involved. At least like this no parts are wasted.

Anyone has similar experiences?
 
Suggest you re-think the idea. The BP in firecrackers isn't the same as the BP used in any firearm cartridge. It's very fine(much moreso than regular BP) flash powder(aka pyrotechnic powder) and is full of other chemicals(magnesium, aluminum, and potassium perchlorate, et al) that will ruin your firearms faster than plain old BP.
And regular BP is measured in grains by volume not mass.
 
Your posts make me appreciate my freedom.
I do not know what it is like to be in your position.

I really do not know anything about pyrotechnic powders.
Their job is to make a loud bang,a big flash,being only contained by paper or cardboard .That is a different job than propelling a projectile from a steel barrel.It might be these powders will turn your gun into a bomb.

You are ,unfortunately,stuck with what you have.

My suggestion is to pursue a technology you can support.The muzzle loader!

To make black powder ...it was being done long ago.
You can even make or procure a flintlock!

It is my fear that the sort of improvisation you are doing will cause you injury.
 
STOP

Don't load anything with the flash powder, it is NOT a propellant for any kind of firearm! Flash powder is simply powdered aluminum and an oxidant. It can be made by anybody, but it's nature makes it extremely hazardous to handle. Lots of injuries and death to those that try to make it.

I'm very sorry you ar not able to gt proper powder in your country. But please be careful what you use to substitute.
 
I shot another shot at a tree of about 40 meters of distance.

Since the Maverick 88 front sight is broken off (only the nut is still there) it is hard to aim but it hit almost at Point.

The Barrel is open choke (no choke at all since it is an defensive shotgun) and about 16" Long. Lots of Flash came out of the Barrel (like 1/4 of an meter).
The recoil is less than with smokeless powder but the bullet Impact of the 7/8 oz Lee Drive Key is impressive. At 50 meters it surely will kill almost any living creature on earth with this powder.
Lots of smoke as well. No sticky Shell at extracting.

The driving Charge I believe is Black Powder. But you may be right the powder of the bombs may be Flash powder.
The driving Charge powder of the firecracker is very coarse (yes very coarse) powder like ground coffee size (yes about coarse ground coffee size).
The bombs powder is however very fine like salt size.

The last Charge was again the coarse driving Charge which is about one Lee dipper size full which came with the Lee 7/8 oz drive key mold (is about 25 grain) + I opened one bomb and put it's powder into it as well (that seems to be of heavy weight which may suggest metallic Content).

At least it works. How dangerous it is who knows. The total powder Charge weight is about 30 grains.

May I just leave the bomb powder out and use the coarse driving Charge only? That gives me about 25 grains of powder.
 
It says there right on the box.

Composition of the chemical products:
Potassium perchlorate
Sulfur
Aluminum
Potassium Nitrate
Iron Oxide
Charcoal.

What you guys think of it? Is it safe? Is it safe with my reduced amount like 25 grain? Considered normal Black Powder amount for 12 ga is about 70 grains (and I use 25 grains for my loads of this "Flash powder").
 
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No. The Perchlorate presents two problems. One is that a portion of the combustion product will be potassium chloride. This is the same thing that made corrosive primers cause gun bores to rust. You have to clean with soap and hot water, usually at least twice to remove it completely.

The second problem is the perchlorate has a degree of impact sensitivity that the nitrate does not. This means that a small charge increase that would be reasonable with black powder could cause a very abrupt increase of pressure in a perchlorate powder. Indeed, this is one reason it makes good fireworks. It can produce a sharp explosion even when the confinement isn't very strong (like paper with a gas-leaking fuse hole through it).

A third issue is the iron oxide and aluminum. These two by themselves make thermit, a mixture that burns so hot it melts steel and used to be used for in-situ welding in railroad work. The presence of these raises the combustion temperature of the powder to produce a brighter flash and make the powder burn more suddenly. It's the reason these mixtures are known as thermotic explosives. That extra heat is also why these mixtures can produce unexpected pressure increases, as more heat makes the combustion reaction go faster. In any event, all the extra heat is bad for your gun, as the same heat stresses that erode a rifle throat will be exaggerated and will produce heat stress cracking on the surface of the steel.

Making your own black powder is easier and less risky for you and the gun than the flash cracker powder. The quality of the launch powder usually isn't very high, but it usually is simple black powder (potassium nitrate, sulfur and charcoal). I'm sure YouTube has demonstrations for making it. The old Firefox (1960's) books on primitive living did, too, including how to make your own potassium nitrate. I made some pretty good quality BP on my own in the 1960's, but due to terrorism I am not really willing to discuss the tricks I learned back then over the Internet. I'll have to leave you to read and explore the subject for yourself.
 
You know, it's funny. I spent two years in Brazil. All sorts of gun regulations, etc but daily 10 year old kids were walking around with pockets full of "m-80's" chucking them at cars and passer-by's, Just to scare the peewadin out of them. Also just for the boom. So I'm assuming these firecrackers you're disassembling are about as common as bakeries were in Brazil, and I'm assuming whatever you are, they're just as common.

Either way, I'd avoid any prolonged exposure to the "black powder" and clean that gun like there's acid in there melting out the bore. You have no idea how corrosive, or not corrosive that stuff is. At least now you know what to use IN A PINCH
 
Yes. Thanks for your reply.

I have tried making Black Powder at home to no avail. It just did not work (even 90 grains of that made the slug indenting only on an Wood). It was just an hopeless failure.
I doubt an Terrorist will use Blacl Powder and if an evil intended "critter" seeks enough to get done his "malaise" he will finally find a way (Murphys Law of Concentrated investing get's you finally to the intented Goal).

So could I expect the launching Charge is about Black Powder only?

I noticed an considerable difference between the launching Charge powder and the powder contained in the bomb paper Shells.

The ingredients listed on the box may be an Overall quimical total Content. The Perchlorate, aluminum and iron oxide may be included only in the powder of the bombs.
 
Yes These firecrackers are actually Made in Brazil (Fogos Artificiais Pinguim Ltda.).

yes they can be had here freely and as many you want and are not that expensive. One firecracker gives one round of 12 ga.

Some BP recipes call for Iron Oxide to include. Some I have read include small amounts of aluminum.

Yea it seems at least to work and works well. Safety aside and unknown though!

The gun used is actually an older Maverick 88 12 ga shotgun (maybe new in 2007). It has what is considered by todays Standard an "Thick Barrel". My Mossberg 500 Turkey THUG 12 ga has compared to this an tiny thin Barrel.
 
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It sounds like you are talking about what we call "bottle rockets" instead of firecrackers. The propellant might work, but probably not very well. (wrong mixture, wrong type of charcoal, binder chemicals, etc.)

You don't want to mess with the flash powder bursting charge, that's a high explosive.

And don't try to mix them.
 
Dear jmorris,

I clicked on your link and got this:
attachment.php

I just can not Access that page but alone through TOR.

I tried making BP but it seems we are locally not having the right Potassium Nitrate since it is agricultural fertilizer only.
 

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Yes locally they are called rockets. Those are indeed rockets. My english Terms seem to lack some vocabulary.

I post you an Picture.

attachment.php


right is the actual rocket firecracker. Left is it's box with it's scheme (construction plan). Those 3 round cylinders are the bombs and below that were it says "polvora" is the launching powder.
 

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From the Picture in the previous post an ingeneer can determine if the launchin Charge is deflagrant or explosive.

I am not an ingeneer so I appreciate any expert analysing that rocket construction plan. Any scientific contribution is much appreciated!

By the way, I have not shot an shotgun for about 6 months and immediatelly after todays test Shooting got head ache from it. I feel an 12 ga is just a bit much for me. That is the reason I ordered an 20 ga (which is in process for it's papers).
 
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Thanks jmorris for sharing.

At first I tried as well to "cook" Black Powder. The result was I almost burnd down several time the kitchen and my People got mad at me.

The only method I would want to use is the dry method with an ball mill. The ball mill I made already and it works but whatever I do for making Black Powder it does not burn quick enough.
Contrary These rockets. The BP contained therein works and is relatively cheap (I have left still an box of about 30 boxes of 12 each totalling 360 rockets that gives 360 12 ga rounds).
Here These rockets are used to scare away birds on the crop fields.
 
If you have to ask, you have no business fooling around with those chemicals.

Are we really having a conversation about flash powders and firearms? A static charge can set those chemicals off.

What you are doing is completely irresponsible and dangerous.
 
This and water are all you need chemical wise.

image_zpsu57mpwhz.jpeg


first I tried as well to "cook" Black Powder. The result was I almost burnd down several time the kitchen and my People got mad at me.
Click to expand...

Not as mad as they will be hauling you to the hospital or burying you, be careful.
 
KNO3 is locally controlled by the governement. But can be had as fertilizer. As for charcoal we have here mostly only hard Wood for charcoal (but charcoal is plenty since it is used for Barbecue).

What scares me off is the "cooking". It is dangerous since on several times the Thing catched fire.

When the launching powder of the rocket is BP why no use that instead. It is professionally made BP which works.

Or is there an probability they use Perchlorate, aluminum and iron oxide for the launching of the accustic bombs? I guess the launching powder is Black Powder. Wouldn't this be reasonable?
And the Sound Cracker accustic bombs contain the detonating powder.

Compared with Youtube BP burn rate Videos this launching powder has similar burn rate (burns about as quick as does BP on Youtube)
 
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