Scary Thought

It's really really hard to answer these scenario situations with the "you shoulda done this or that" answers. Every situation is different because the people are different, there's the guys that if you look at them wrong it's on, and those that buckle to any show of backbone.

I get criticized for being in the situations that are less than copasetic, but I got in them in the first place because I could.

Knowing what to say or do for the situation as it is is the key. I had the hugest solidest 1% biker (450+ pounds) you'd never want to see in your face that had made the comment "looks like a yuppy to me" when I was being introduced to him. As this party was being organized people had pointed out to my "walk on the wild side" girlfriend that it wouldn't be a good idea for me to be at this biker party, the way it was put was "Keith looks like a yuppy and (blank) kills yuppies". I assured my girlfriend that I could handle the situation, don't worry about me. So I'm being introduced to the biggest, solidest boulder of a human being I've ever seen (in my face anyway). In response to his comment I leaned a little closer to him and asked, "if you see a yuppy why don't you try to kick his (gluteous maximus)?" The room went silent as people waited for the carnage that was to be me, heck, I figured I'd get trashed. We stared at each other and I took a measured step back, he started laughing and said "I like this guy, he's got (cahones)". This was the correct response at that time for that guy, it may never have worked on another. I ended up with a nickname with that club that I really didn't like but I owned it anyway, I was evermore "that yuppy mother f#%7er that Susan's with, or just that yuppy MF".

Later he wanted to know what was in the briefcase I always had with me, I flicked the one latched catch open and had a six inch Colt Diamondback in my hand. He made the obvious observation that it was "just a .22", a couple other club members came over to check it out and one made the comment that a .22 was a professional's weapon and looked at me a bit closer. My new buddy looked at me differently knowing I had access to a gun but hadn't pull it out because of an eminent physical threat. We'll never know if when I stepped back I was going to grab that Diamondback or not, rest assured I was in a serious threat of getting severely hurt. Let's just say I had no intention of getting run over by a guy who looked like a tank that had a reputation for killing yuppies. That's the one time I was feeling a .22 might be inadequate, sort of like taking a .22 to a tank fight. :D I remember thinking the Python would have made me feel quite a bit more secure, I also remember thinking "headshot or I'm gonna get hurt".

I know there's a hundred guys on here that think they'd have handled it better but they never would have been in this particular situation in the first place so it's a moot point.

I went 20 plus years figuring I'd take certain stories about things I did to the grave, but the time gone by has me feeling like it's in the past and safer to talk about as long as clubs and specific people aren't named.
 
Im 49 and still choose to run. I do run 3 marathons a year so unless the guy can run long distances im good to go. I can't honestly say what i would do if confronted and no place to run. Maybe a cheap shot in the groin and then run.
 
I mean the "Hey, sorry if I offended you, yes I am a horrible excuse for human existance. I am in the wrong here, I won't do that ever again."
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AA +1.

No one likes to be considered a patsy, soft, or whatever; yet the wise thing to do is do whatever is necessary to avoid a fight. If the above does not work toss your drink or whatever is handy and run like HELL if you can.
 
Had a guy want to kick me rear end 2 months ago, he was a lot smaller than me too. Must have been dropped on his head as a kid. I stood up to him, he wouldnt throw a punch so I left him standing there all upset cause he run a red lite and I hit his car, it didnt make it, he walked home that nite.

A bud asked me why I didnt shoot him :) I asked him why should I have? I did learn me one lesson, never leave home without the cell phone, 3 guys there all had cell phones but not one called 911, probably due to them being stoned or whatever, I walked to a store and they run off including the one wanted to kick me rear.

Years ago as a bouncer I had to deal with all sorts of idiots, drinking makes one stupid and ignorant IMHO so I just dont drink.

In almost every altercation you get to a point wheree you know it is going bad, at that point you best leave before it happens and you end up regretting an action that didnt need to be.
 
I've found that using:

Sir
Mam, (or Miss)
Thank you
Excuse Me
Your Welcome
Have a Nice Day

Works wonders to get out of a awkward situation, and doesn't cost you a dime.

Those words are automatically built in, growing up in the south:) :D


Good line from the movie "Road House", words to live by
Dalton: I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice.
 
Thank you everybody for you thoughts. I will definitely be getting some more training on self defense and weapon retention. Additionally, I will consider also carrying a non-lethal means of defense.

And if anybody knows how this case would work out specifically in Florida with having to take beating or not before I draw please let me know...I've been going through the statutes for a while now with no luck.

Thanks again.
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You won't find it. It's deliberately left out so it can be applied at the discretion of the state. You're looking for a boundary at which you can draw a weapon, unfortunately there isn't one. Every scenario is dealt with individually. The only specific scenario it dictates is that "words are not justification for using deadly force."

If you are physically capable, the benefits of learning unarmed combat far exceeds the benefits of carrying a weapon. Especially since the law deals disparagingly on armed force. You'll find out that problems tend to happen at conversation distances and you will have to deal with close quarters fighting whether you plan for it or not.

If you're just starting out, I highly advise against "street fighting" classes, since the vast majority are shams. These days it's easy to make up credentials, awards and qualifications, especially for "street fighting" since there's no governing body for it like there is with sport fighting. I actually would recommend that you get into a sport fighting gym such as MMA, boxing or kick boxing. It's easy to recognize competence among these gyms as the successful gyms will have fighters who compete. They are also more complete, in that you will get instructions on nutrition, strength, cardio and reflex training along with techniques. You will also "spar" often, which will allow you to constantly use the techniques you're taught. Quite often with "street fighting" classes, I see techniques that aren't practicable on a live opponent. These are great, as a supplement to traditional fighting techniques, but never as a base. A jab, cross combo that's properly taught and practiced goes a long ways in any type of fight. Keep at it for a few months and then you can dab into the "street fighting" scene with your boxing base and you will be better able to judge the credibility of the techniques the instructor demonstrates.
 
If you dont want to use your fire arm and dont think your hands are good enough carry mace,tazer, or a folding baton they are legal pretty much every were.
 
Protecting ones firearm does not seem to me valid grounds for drawing a weapon. What do you think ?
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If someone was drawing a gun on you, the law would generally recognize your right to use deadly force. The danger would be obvious.

If someone were trying to arm themselves with YOUR gun, why would the danger and justification be any less?
 
In my UNQUALIFIED opinion, if you pull and fire on somebody who was going to force you into a fist fight, at least in a state like California (and probably in most other states), you are facing an uphill battle to stay out of prison for a lengthly period. That assumes you have the CCW, which if you don't you are really screwed.
 
If you absolutely cannot walk away and deescalate the situation,you might need to draw if you dont feel comfortable with hand to hand defense.If you are being threatened,and are in fear that the offenders physical capabilities are too great for you to defend yourself,go ahead and bring the guns out.Its your life.
 
USCTrojanSigFan: not meaning to demean or disrespect you, but your statement is exactly the type the liberals, socialists, and Kommifornia styled pacifists thrive upon.

The test is not whether one is bigger, one has a gun, one is forcing another into a fist fight: the test is simply "Did I at the moment I pulled my gun out and fired, in fact, fear for my life or fear imminent grave physical harm?"

If the answer is "Yes", . . . then you shoot to stop that fear or threat.

Simple, . . . straight forward, . . . up and up. Anything else, . . . like you said,
you are facing an uphill battle to stay out of prison for a lengthly period.
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May God bless,
Dwight
 
As an aside Sam Colt had been said to say (paraphrased since it's been a long time since I've seen the qoute) "God did not make all men equal that's why I made the Colt revolver" I am not a big person, rather skinny in fact, and if someone 6'+ and 250 lbs. was bent on beating me to death I would shoot to stop that possibility. Not to mention, I'm just a 68 year old guy that probably couldn't outrun the BG either.
 
@Dwight55: You sound completely out of touch with reality. We read all the time about people who shoot others who were unarmed after being cornered in a fight, etc...it does not end pretty for them with the law. Just saying, enjoy explaining why you shot an unarmed man to the police, DA and possibly jury. It's probably not going to be as clear as you would like it to be.
 
No Dwight is not out of touch with reality at all. In fact he is quite in touch with what established law states regarding disparity of force. You on the other hand need to go do some research, then come back and tell us what you have found out.
 
In less a significant portion of society would consider you to be "frail" or "out matched having been injured already," then I do not recommend relying on a pistol at the outset of a hand to hand altercation.

"If you pull your gun, it's in your hand and you have control of the situation."
Firearms are not talismans providing any number of attributes commonly ascribed to them on various forums, to include control.
 
@jhenry

Enjoy explaining the legal standard to the police, DA and jury. As I stated alread, there are many cases of people arguing the legal standard of self defense and losing because nobody buys the argument that you had to shoot an UNARMED man. I am not aware of any cases where somebody shoots an unarmed man and is acquitted. Although they probably exist, I suspect they are in a very small minority. Perhaps you are the one that needs to research.
 
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Get a copy if this and read an understand it http://www.amazon.com/Florida-Gun-Owners-Guide-Guides/dp/1889632007.

There is also case (common) law to consider (and in some states it IS the ONLY law governing the legal use of deadly force - like Virginia).

There are all sorts of 'gotchas' buried in the case law of many states (and sub-municipalities).

In Virginia fists are a weapon, but NOT a DEADLY weapon.
Responding with deadly force is going to require a LOT of legal work to defend you sionce you are behind the eight ball of case law.

Simple fear is not adequate.

Self defense is an 'affirmative defense.'

You admit to homicide.

You then have the burden of showing it was within the law and necessary to protect yourself (or another).

The detailed rules are different in every state.

Did you have ANY part in initiating the fight?

Did you meet any rules of retreat?

Did you escalate 'mutual combat' ('let's settle this outside') to a lethal level?

It is liable to be an expensive lesson, even if you win the case (and unlike the police you have neither the FOP, a union, or the state to defend you).

Retreat is just about always a better option (until you cannot).



.
 
USC, I am really not trying to be too hard on anyone here, but you may want to take a good look at the tone of your posts. Calling someone "out of touch with reality" is a pretty astounding thing to say considering you have presented nothing in that attack of any substance. In your reply to me you also present nothing of substance.

The legal standard which is in effect in all 50 states regarding the legitimate use of deadly force revolves around the assailant having the MEANS to cause death or serious bodily harm, the OPPORTUNITY to use those means, and the INTENT (stated or implied) to use those means. Some jurisdictions use the term ABILITY in place of MEANS.

Disparity of Force refers to a difference in the ability to apply force in a life or limb threatening situation. The disparity can be to such an extent that the victim is in threat of life and limb even if the assailant has only his or her hands and feet as weapons. You may find this to be amazing but....hands and feet have caused death and great bodily harm for literally thousands of years. You can look that one up if you wish. In situations where the victim, for example, is smaller (females or small persons), older, has a heart issue, is disabled in some fashion, they can easily be in immediate danger of the loss of life or limb from an attacker armed with nothing more than hands to strangle or boots to stomp in a skull. In your world view, apparently, these persons should not resort to the use of a firearm to stave off a rapist or killer. Perhaps you think the woman or older man who was stomped to death by a pack of thugs because he could not fight them off (disparity of force) has (had) a better grasp of the law and criminal justice system then the one who decided to survive. Interesting. A perfectly healthy normal sized male can be in danger of life and limb with multiple attackers. A compromised person gets to that point much quicker.

I, in fact, can give you several examples of deadly force being applied against an unarmed assailant very successfully with no charges. Not "I suspect" or "probably".

My suggestion to you sir, before you go around flying off the handle at folks and start flinging insults, is to gain some subject matter knowledge. There is really no downside.

In some areas any use of a firearm for self defense will be examined much more closely than others, I am fully aware of that. In no area or jurisdiction on this earth am I going let any member of my family to include myself, lose life or limb even from an unarmed person, even if I have to use the last resort of a firearm. I would sure rather run, flee, or whatever prior to that.
 
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