Scary; Glad this guy is not wearing a badge anymore

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Cops need to be more aggressive, expert says
Retired policeman says authorities need to ‘push the envelope’ in order to nab terrorists and gangsters.
By JAMES AMOS
THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN

Pipe bomber Lucas Helder was stopped by police three times during his five-state bombing spree in 2002 - including once in Fowler.

But none of the officers searched his car, according to gang and terrorist expert Sgt. Lou Savelli, who spoke in Pueblo to an estimated 450 law enforcement officials about terrorism Monday. Six people were injured by the Helder bombs, which were strategically planted around the country to make a "smiley face" pattern on a map.

"Had one cop searched his car, they would have found the pipe bombs he was using," the now-retired Savelli said.

He was the first of several speakers scheduled to address a three-day Colorado STING conference being held in Pueblo. The convention is a yearly meeting that brings law enforcement officials together to trade gang information and information-gathering techniques.

Street cops and others haven't always seen the connection between law enforcement and combating terrorists, Savelli said. But it's foolish not to, he added.

"I don't personally care if it's not in your job description," Savelli said. "I never asked for permission. I just did it."

Savelli was a member of a New York police unit that was formed following the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center. The unit quickly established more than 40 Middle Eastern informants and made scores of arrests.

Talking about the attacks on the trade center's twin towers, Savelli said the United States had several indications that the attacks were coming. But the country sat unprepared, he said, because federal officers couldn't get permission to search further and because local law enforcement didn't see anti-terrorism as its job.

Savelli, who now heads a security firm, said it is everyday cops, probation officers, prison guards and sheriff deputies that make up the real front in the war against terrorism.

Several of the hijackers responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks had been stopped by police for traffic infractions, but later let go, Savelli said.

One of them, Mohammed Atta, was stopped a month before the attacks. He was released with a traffic ticket because no one searched a national computer database that would have shown he was wanted for an unpaid traffic ticket several months earlier.

Savelli said he never stopped cars just to write traffic tickets when he worked as a patrol officer.

"I stopped cars for the purpose of getting into the car, or finding a bad guy," he said. "You have to push the envelope."

Pushing the envelope was one of two major messages in Savelli's talk.

Gang members and terrorists are constantly changing and improving their techniques, he said, so law enforcement must push the limits, too, even if that means pushing up against a suspect's civil rights.
Savelli said one of the Sept. 11 hijackers was contacted by federal agents before the attacks, but the agents couldn't get permission to search his laptop computer.

What would a street cop have done? he asked. Seize it anyway to make sure it wasn't a bomb.

"Would we have been violating his civil rights? Who gives a (expletive)?" he said.


Had the laptop been searched, it probably would have had plans or photos connected to the attacks, he said.

"I don't remember one day on the streets I didn't break a rule, break a law," Savelli said. "Rules are made to be bent."

Aside from using more gusto, Savelli said local law enforcement needs to look around more at its community.

Criminal and terrorist gangs are joining forces and have changed how they operate, he said.

Hezbolla and Hamas raise billions of dollars in America each year by working low-risk, low-penalty crime rackets in unlicensed cigarettes, unlicensed alcohol, stolen baby formula, stolen credit cards and a score of others, he claimed.

They know that guns and drugs attract cops and lead to long prison sentences, Savelli said.

In one instance, Middle Eastern shopkeepers hired Crips gang members to shoplift baby formula. The shopkeepers bought the formula from the gang members cheaply and then resold it at their corner stores for full retail price, he said. Part of the profits went to Middle East extremist groups.

In New York and many other parts of the country, the vast majority of small grocery and convenience stores are owned by Middle Eastern people, Savelli said. To get at the bad ones, cops need to find and prosecute even the low-level crimes and turn those criminals into informants.

Because when America law enforcement focuses on the right thing, and shares information between agencies and jurisdictions, he said, "there's no stopping us."

http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1153877807/4

Makes you wonder:barf:

good = he is no longer an LEO
bad = he is speaking and teaching other LEO's, and it seems they are listening.
 
In theory I understand what he means...

But then when he comes to my car window or door....that is different.
So, I have to say... maybe he needs to re-read the constitution.
 
So, I have to say... maybe he needs to re-read the constitution.
Quite possibly he and his type of LEO's don't give a hoot about the Constitution when it limits them doing what they deem correct, necessary and truly right when dealing with criminals, preferring to let some judge later rule that their actions were unacceptable based on Constitutional guidelines and earlier SCOTUS interpretations (show me Miranda in the COTUS?). In this fashion, another bad guy is at least off the streets for a while. Now and then, you'll get an overzealous Officer who might even overstep his bounds as an enforcer of legitimate laws. 'Twere it the 50's/60's a lot of LEO's, enforcing the laws and concepts of the day had zero problem applying sometimes severe force onto minority skulls.

Everything is relative. Base line being... whose actions do we use as the norm? Early Americans who founded the nation and wrote the Constitution? (OK to destroy the Indians and their culture) (OK to own another human) (OK to not allow, or even think about women having rights)

In theory, actions by Officers like Sgt Savelli's are later ruled on by a competant judge or an appellate court who might agree that his actions went too far... in theory.
 
Street cops and others haven't always seen the connection between law enforcement and combating terrorists, Savelli said. But it's foolish not to, he added.

Maybe not by name as cops are there to enforce the law regardless of whether the person is a terrorist, bank robber, mass murderer, speeder, etc. They are dealt with for the infractions they commit, not what they are called.

The connection to Lucas Helder is stupid. He was neither a terrorist or gang member. To be a terrorist, his bombings would have needed to be violent acts against non-combatants for the purpose of making social, political, or religious changes. Instead, he was just a nut, found incompetent to stand trial.

Between Helder and Savelli, I am not sure Savelli isn't the greater threat to the American people.

--------------

Be even more scared. Apparently he is a highly decorated and well respected former cop, writer in the police industry...
http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/LouSavelli/
 
"I don't remember one day on the streets I didn't break a rule, break a law," Savelli said. "Rules are made to be bent."
I hope the attendees at the Colorado STING Convention give the organizers an earful. They sponsored a speaker who is encouraging Peace Officers to break the law!!!! Unbelievable.
Rich
 
I can't say it's very suprising... he's former NYPD after all, and we all know what kind of example their Mayor has set when it comes to following the law. Apparantly in New York City laws only apply to the "little people".
 
Followup article in today's Chieftain:

Local authorities deride N.Y. cop's remarks
By JAMES AMOS
THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN
Pueblo's top cops said Tuesday they strongly disagree with a retired New York police sergeant who made light Monday of the constitutional rights of criminal suspects.

"We do not endorse the position that Mr. (Lou) Savelli takes regarding violating civil rights, rules and laws," Pueblo Police Chief Jim Billings said in an e-mail to City Council members, members of the Pueblo Human Relations Commission and others.

"Statements like these are very damaging to law enforcement." Billings said. "I have the responsibility to ensure that no one thinks the Pueblo Police Department condones such behavior. Not only would such conduct violate the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics, but it would also subject us to civil, criminal and administrative penalties."

Pueblo County Sheriff Dan Corsentino said Pueblo residents shouldn't think Savelli's remarks reflected how his department operates.

"The values we impose on young officers are completely contrary to what this gentlemen said," Corsentino said. "I was very, very distressed to hear those comments."

Savelli spoke Monday at the Colorado Threat Intelligence Network Group conference, a yearly gathering of law enforcement, prison, probation, parole and related agencies to discuss gang information.

Savelli, who helped start New York City's anti-terrorism unit following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, said police feel overly limited by laws and protocols when they pursue suspects.

Federal agents couldn't obtain legal permission to search a terrorism suspect's laptop computer before the Sept. 11 attacks, Savelli said.

But a good street cop would have created a way to search it anyway, he added.

"Would we have been violating his civil rights? Who gives a (expletive)?" Savelli said.

Savelli, who now runs Homefront Protective Group Inc., also said cops need to be more aggressive pursuing gangs and suspected terrorists.

"I don't remember one day on the streets I didn't break a rule, break a law," Savelli said. "Rules are made to be bent."

But not in Pueblo, according to the police chief and sheriff.

"We do not sanction that," Billings said. "We do not agree with that."

Officials of the Colorado STING group also said Tuesday that they don't agree with Savelli's statements.

"That isn't what we are about," said Irene Basta, the group's vice-president and a longtime Pueblo County sheriff's deputy.

Colorado STING President Leonard Vigil said his group was formed to help law enforcement and related officers share information about criminals.

"We hold our officers to the highest standards," Vigil said. "The opinions of the speakers are just that, their opinions."

Bill Sanchez, chairman of the Pueblo Human Relations Commission, said Tuesday that he felt Savelli's remarks were "not a very good example" for other law enforcement officers.

"There are several groups and organizations already upset by this man's statement," he said.


Guess somebody caught hell yesterday, eh?
 
Guess somebody caught hell yesterday, eh?

Good, he needs to catch hell. That man does not need to be in any, ANY security, protective, LE business, at all. I am glad to see that LE made a stand against this idiots views.
 
Reading a lot of the post's on this forum

Most believe LEO are law breakers. I have read through a lot of it and some deserve it and some don't.

Not much different then in real life situations. Ask most who were stopped for speeding or some other reason. They were abused and had their "God given rights" violated.:eek: Mentioning the LEO violated the speed on the road to catch them:barf:

I remember one thread that was really funny, the guy was stopped for a violation given a verbal warning, and he was allowed to go his way without a ticket. For three pages or more people ranted about the no good LEO.:confused:

As far as this thread goes there are some pretty good points made and some stuff that is worrisome to say the least.:(

Oh Well, HQ:p
 
The biz has way too many jackasses like this, and the problem is that they reproduce. After a long career as a cop, with considerable time in mid-level management, I can tell you this- "pups" get sent off to these seminars, get all fired up, and often have to be reigned-in when they get back. If their sgt's. and lt's. aren't paying attention- crap happens.

I do get part of what he is saying about laziness on the job. When cops don't do state/NCIC computer checks, badasses get away. People also get killed. Many years ago I stopped a van that had been stopped 15 minutes earlier, 'just across the line' in a major midwestern city. Illegal left turn was the PC, but it looked hinky because the plate looked altered, driver's head was spinning on his shoulders like Linda Blair in The Exorcist every time he saw a black & white, etc. I had watched him drive by another marked unit on a traffic stop, and noticed this; we were having lotsa business burglaries.

The plate had a homicide warrant 'hit' on it. We got that resolved w/o bloodshed (driver wasn't the wanted party) but I later found out that our next-door agency had pulled it over for C&I and let him go with a warning; didn't run the tag or driver. Maybe their radio traffic was ridiculously busy (as it often was) and the cop just couldn't get on the air. I never heard exactly why.

"I don't remember one day on the streets I didn't break a rule, break a law," Savelli said. "Rules are made to be bent."

Great...just what we need. Some lawbreaker with a badge creating more lawbreakers. Funny, I never felt the need to look for ways to break the law, to enforce it. There were always plenty of righteous stops and searches to be had for anyone willing to pay attention.

Followup article in today's Chieftain:

Local authorities deride N.Y. cop's remarks
By JAMES AMOS
THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN
Pueblo's top cops said Tuesday they strongly disagree with a retired New York police sergeant who made light Monday of the constitutional rights of criminal suspects....

Hallelujah! I'm not the only one.
 
Boy, am I glad I retired,, working with and for asshats like that was becoming more of a problem,,,,,every thing he claims needs to be done by street cops can and has been done with in the frame work of LEGAL GUIDELINES.
 
At this point, as far as I'm concerned, this story is no longer about Savelli...and it's no longer a cause for hand wringing.

Given the swift and unmistakable denunciation of Savelli by Pueblo's top cops, the story is now about guys like Jim Billings, Dan Corsentino and Bill Sanchez. And it's a cause for rejoicing. These guys represent the overwhelming majority of LEO's, I think. Savelli is unworthy of further comment.

Sheriff Dan Corsentino can be reached at sheriff@co.pueblo.co.us

For Jim Billings and Bill Sanchez, the commendation form at http://pueblo.us/cgi-bin/gt/tpl_page.html,template=1&content=503&nav1=1&
seems to be brain dead. I suggest anyone who reads this thread, and especially those most concerned about police excess, make their thoughts known. These cops deserve a true attaboy.


Email Sheriff Corsentino and ask him to pass the message on to Billings and Sanchez.

If you're at a loss for words, try a variation of the following:
Sheriff Corsentino-
I just want you to know the importance of your public reaction to the comments made by former NYC Police Officer, Sgt Lou Savelli, at the Colorado STING conference. At a time when the divide between LEO's and non-uniformed civilians seems to be widening faster than we can repair, your swift denouncement of Sgt Savelli's clear disregard for Civil Rights have echoed on a national scale.

Your understanding that our Constitutional Liberties are not an "impediment" to good police work but the very goal of it, needs to be heard by every citizen in this nation....whether they wear a badge or not.

I am unable to reach Chief Jim Billings or Pueblo spokesperson Bill Sanchez through the Commendation Form on their site and would greatly appreciate if you would pass this message on to both.

Well done! Thank you for your service and dedication.

Sincerely-

Rich Lucibella
Publisher
SWAT Magazine
Rich
 
Always refuse consent to search, and don't even answer the question until you are free to go. Then at least you have a chance to beat any manufactured beef on illegal search grounds, which you can't do if you invite them to snoop. If they ask to snoop while you are detained the intimidation factor mitigates against freedom to decline. If this JBT thinks a badge is a licence to break the law, I have no doubts that he would plant evidence and testilie.
 
My question is this, "WHY IS THIS GUY NO LONGER A POLICE OFFICER"? do you think just maybe he was asked to leave the force because of his actions that led to several arrest no resulting in convictions for violating the rules of his job.

Lou Savelli was supposedly one of the most decorated officers in NYPD history (which speak volumes for the NYPD, doesn't?). I wouldn't be surprised if he was allowed to retire instead of face disciplinary action for his $^&% civil rights attitudes.
 
Kelly J

I agree with you, about this particular lecture/lecturer.
He went over the top, but what he is saying is something that has been done and will be done in the future.

Sad but true.

Most of today's Departments are very aware and they do get the bad cop out of the system. Takes time and patience similar to what happens in today's arena with the criminals and their rights.

There are some police that are in certain positions that track only bad guys, they actually have the lic. to kill at their disposal. It is a small group of LEO, but they are out there.

I believe that the normal bad guy is caught without resorting to illegal tactics.

The laws are written in such a way as to give LEO an edge. They just have to be very observant and dilligent.

Some good and bad "case law" on the books.

I was just reading where 3 officers who were fired because of an unjust system were awarded 5 million each. Normally it happens the other way, the citizen is getting the award.

HQ
 
Kelly-
Provide us some real world incidents where the "perp" walked because of a "technicality". I hear this often enough, but I'd just like to see some of the actual cases. I know, people are sometimes found innocent or the charges dropped; but this doesn't stop the US of A from having the highest rate of incarceration in the entire world.

So, how 'bout those cases? Source, please.
Rich
 
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