Scary Experience, Advice Needed

If one is being attacked by a pack of dogs, feral dogs, coyotes, or wolves, . . . the need is the same: a reliable stopper of a maximum 150 lb animal, . . . and fast followup shots.

The .44 mag, .357 mag, .41 mag, 10mm are all good in the first half of the need equasion, . . . but can be sorely lacking in the latter part.

A good 1911 or BHP with respectable hollow point ammo will handle BOTH tricks much better than any of the higher power calibers. I perfer .45ACP, . . . but in this scenario, . . . 9mm I would believe to be adequate.

One poster made a case for wolves being tough to kill critters, . . . and I don't dispute that, . . . but the one thing I did not see in any of the other posts is the fact that all dogs, coyotes, or wolves, . . . are absolute pack animals. When one gets mopped up on real good, . . . the rest pull the respect card and boogie. Fast followup shots make that a quicker probability, especially if the first shot or few shots are all misses.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
"Wolves haven't knowingly killed or attacked humans in ..... ages. They will run from you and avoid you."


I hear that a lot, but also have heard the opposite. There was a wolf attack in Canada not too long ago, and there have been several accounts of wolves stalking people. I've heard one secondhand account of a wolf that attacked a girl waiting for a school bus near Gardner MT in the first couple years after they were reintruduced into Yellowstone, tho the news seems to decline mentioning that and other potentially embarrasing situations with wolves. Same for grizzlies. The accounts that make it into the news don't get very widespread attention (and some don't make it into the news at all), hence we hear many claiming that there either aren't any grizzly attacks, or that they are very rare and years and years between each attack. Sorry, but that isnt true either, just like the tale about wolves never attacking humans, or engaging in predatory behaviour.

I believe it's called "an inconvenient truth".

One of the things that's hard to do is "confirm" things that happen in the hills. Just ask a rancher that's had cattle killed by wolves or bears. I don't by any means believe that bears and wolves are just waiting to jump any anwary human they can find, but to deny that they do, rarely, either stalk, or actually attack humans is simply not true, and amounts to a head in the sand attitude. As someone said, what makes you think you get a "get out of the woods free" card just because you're a human?


I'm also a bit surprised at all the wolf (or bear) advice that comes from folks that don't live anywhere near them.

To be back on topic, I'd suggest something in the 357 mag/9mm and up range. You didnt say where you are, so we don't know if larger bears are in the neighborhood. Something relatively light to carry, and that you can shoot well, or important. As far as the 1911 that's too good to use, I would say if its too good to use, sell it and buy a couple things you arent afraid to use. I, for one, have no qualms whatsoever about using any gun, or modifying it to make it practical for my uses. I can't understand why anyone would not take their Smith & Wessons or anything else out in the hills in the rain and snow. I do, and have for many many years.

Someoene mentioned using ball ammo in 45 auto in the field. I'd guess they havent actually done so. I have, and wasnt impressed with the terminal performance of RN ammo on game. On wolf size animals, a good expanding round that has decent, but not African grade penetration, should do fine for what you describe. Wolves arent large bears, and super penetrating rounds arent needed, just "good enough". I'd opt for some reliable expansion over super penetration that case.
 
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You had a bow? One of the most leathel weapons ever made at close range?

I have shot coyotes with a bow while in a stand, they died fast. I do carry my .45 in a coat pocket too. We dont have wolves here but heck last monday a hunter killed a mountain lion while deer hunting.
 
Hi there

:D I have a Taurus 617 TI in 38/357. The gun only weighs 16 ounces unloaded, thinking that a 16 oz. gun in .357 would be brutal well think again it’s ported, standard. The grip is that ribbed rubber stuff, very easy on the hands. I like it very much…and it’s a seven shot not six.
Tom
 
Markj said

"You had a bow? One of the most lethal weapons ever made at close range?

I have shot coyotes with a bow while in a stand, they died fast. I do carry my .45 in a coat pocket too. We dont have wolves here but heck last monday a hunter killed a mountain lion while deer hunting."


Multiple targets (major predator, wolf, bear, mt lion -- not a 30 Lb coyote) at point blank range -- a bow under SHTF conditions doesn't sound like a viable option to me.

You need to figure out what's the worst possible threat and arm yourself accordingly.

Hi Cap auto sounds great, but how many rounds can you really get off if surrounded by a pack of "whatever" at 15 yards or 10 feet? The OP was in the dark -- with wolves around him -- "spray and pray semi auto" maybe -- bow? no way. What if it was a blackie or grizz? I'll take my chances with a six shot double action .44 mag (mines a 329).

I'll say again, archery elk hunters in the northern rockies are particularly vulnerable -- check the FWP websites. Be safe out there.

Paul
 
I latch a sharp machette on my belt when bow hunting. Comes in handy for more than just self-defense. I like clear shooting lanes :D

It isn't the ones you see blocking your way I'd worry about. It's the one sneaking up behind you. Their instinct is to attack from the rear. That's why you don't run.
 
meet the 600 Nitro Express Magnum, my friends :)


This is not a joke. This gun really exists. It's the absolute ultimate Magnum revolver and one that Smith & Wesson would rather you didn't know about as their market researcher would need medication ! Rumours that Smith & Wesson were actually thinking of developing a .75 caliber pistol have never been substantiated, or have never left the drawing board, and the possibility of such a gun coming from them is remote to say the least.

Because of its size the Pfeifer-Zeliska .600 Nitro Express Magnum would really be required to be fired whilst resting on a bench clamp or small sand bags as shown in the image below.

The gun weighs in at total of 13.23lbs and consequently is heavy enough to absorb most of the violent recoil. In fact it is said to be on scale to firing the Smith & Wesson .50 Magnum.
Click to expand...

2_600gun5_1.jpg


attachment.php





....and a video of a fat guy shooting a different gun chambered for the 600 nitro express magnum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8fSIbA9SOM
 
Depending on where you live, a Glock 20SF / 29SF is a great gun. 10mm is sufficient for most states. I have a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" 44 and it's a beast to lug around compared to a Glock.
 
What's wrong with the 45 you already own? Wolves are just dogs and are not thick skinned or even tough. Whoever said that hit the pipe too early in the day!:D
 
I have never observed a wolf or coyote in the wilds but I have heard them and that was enough to get my attention. But then I am not going into the woods without some type of heavy firearm.

Neither have I ever shot a wolf or a coyote but I have shot a fox and that was a one shot kill but it is a smaller animal.

The worse encounter I have had with an animal of that sort was with a pit bull that charged me. It took three shots to drop it but it finally stopped about 4 feet from me and at a time I was doubting my ability to get a fourth shot off. Afterward I went home to change clothes.

I would not settle for anything less than a .40 semi or a .357 DA revolver with a 4 or 6 inch barrel for what you seek.
 
Get a big one...like a .44 Mag Smith with a 4" barrel on it. If it's bear or one the infrequent mountain lions still roaming around, you'll be glad for the extra power. Anything smaller in caliber is a compromise.

Are you legal to carry while bow hunting? Just a thought.

I'm a believer in revolvers where you need to make it happen right now without fooling around with safeties, slides, magazines etc. You pull the trigger something happens or it doesn't...no need to tap, rack...any of that bs. Just pull the trigger again; you get a whole new try...just pull the trigger.

A .44 will handle anything in the lower 48...for Alaska it needs to be bigger..so say my pals up that way.

Get a rig to carry it that you can realistically draw from and practice, practice, practice...with an unloaded gun till it's 2nd nature. In combat use, I found that some sort of shoulder rig was right...one that fit across my chest...airplanes, bunkers, trenches etc always were grabbing at a waist holster and gumming up the actions with crap. In a 'cross' the chest rig, you can unbutton your coat, still have access and the gun is fully protected. It's not 'Cowboy', but it dam--d well works.

Packing out meat from a fresh kill is scary sometimes in bear country. You;'re loaded down with a hind quarter, it's getting dark...etc...but returning to the kill site, in the dark to continue the process is even scarier. A good revolver where you can reach it puts the quits to the 'willies'. Been there, done that.

JMHO, Rodfac
 
How about a SW .44 mountain gun (4") Can use special loads also. Less expensive is the Charter Arms .44 (spec) Bulldog. 3" I think.
 
First thing you need to do is check your local laws or game wardens.When I use to ride snowmobiles we run into groups of hunters using radios,sleds and
carrying 12 gauge shotguns.They used 3 inch shells loaded with buckshot.
When I use to hunt I carried my ruger security-six 357 in stainless as I was never one to carry 10-12 shells into the woods .I carried what was in my rifle
and that was it.Coyotes was our biggest problem as the dumb 4 legged critters use to get on the packed trails and wouldn't move so we'd kit them while we
were running at slow 20 mph. Moose you stayed back and hoped they move.
They were so majestic.Bottom line wild animals are dangerous so use care.
If I was in your shoes I would be looking for a ruger revolver in 357 or 44
mag. Just another thought the Charter House bulldog 5 rounds weighs 21 oz
empty.240 grain self protection round do have pretty stout recoil.
 
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Pitbull

oldman, your reply caught my attention.

As I have posted on the forum before, I live in an incorporated suburban area that is adjacent to several thousand acers of preserved open space, or park that is home to deer, elk, moutain lion, coyote, rattlesnake, skunk, pretty much any critter indigenous to high plains, front range Rockies. The house I live in is about 250 yards away from the park. My dog and my family put in several miles of hiking / walking a week in the park when the weather is good and the ground isn't too muddy. I have proper respect, I believe, for these wild animals when out there. In the winter I carry my S&W 686+ for only the worst scenarios- for any other scenario, as far as I know, discharging a firearm in city limits here is a felony.

That said, I worry far more when the trails are muddy and I am forced to walk the streets of my neighborhood because I have a couple of neighbors who own pitbulls they don't seem to be able to control well. One actually broke free of it leash (yes, broke the leash in half) and attacked my Lab when my wife and I were otherwise enjoying a walk last spring. I wasn't carrying then as we were just walking around the block (I don't make that mistake anymore) and don't think I'd fire my weapon in city limits to break up a fight between dogs anyway. If I were protecting my daughters, wife or myself, it would be a different story and I'd take my chances with the police, DA and judge. In summer, I carry a .380 in a pocket holster. In winter it is varied as the layers of clothing allow for good concealment for more substantial choices.

So, what did you use to put down the pitbull that attacked you? I'm guessing in advance that my .380 won't get the job done...
 
Something quick on the move like a wolf, your better off with capacity. I like the glock in just about any caliber, (9mm 147 grain, 357 sig 147 grain hornady, 40 S&W, 10mm...) Reminds me of a story. A gun writer is out with a buddy testing 1911 45s. His kid is out with a .22lr rifle on the other side of the ranch. Feral dogs chase his kid and put him in a tree. The 1911 gun buffs run out to rescue him and start shooting the dogs. Every dog shot with the 45 runs off. The dogs shot with the .22 rifle lay dead under the tree.
 
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