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scalping
- Thread starter cptjack
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The factory wholesale prices have gone up as they have been unable to meet demand and their raw material costs have been increased, also due to competition for them. Until the European shipping tie-ups end and Europe gets back to work and we start to see some of the imports again that used to be a significant part of the domestic ammo and component supply chain or anything else that takes some of the demand off of the domestic plants, this won't change. Even lower price places like Powder Valley or Midsouth have primers at $50-$65/1000 now. You can tell it's the wholesale price issue because the increase is uneven among the different brands and types at Midsouth. For example, Midsouth lists Winchester Match LR primers at $38.99/1000, but Winchester standard LR primers higher, at $41.33/1000, and Federal standard LR primers at $50.32/1000 and Federal Match LR magnum primers at $63.22/1000. All are out of stock, so it seems pretty clear they are moving the price point every time they get a new shipment and find out what it is going to cost them. Not the most economical thing for the shooter, but not gouging or scalping in the sense that the selling price is out of line with current wholesale cost.
NoSecondBest
New member
If you don’t like the prices when times like this occur, try stocking up when prices are fair and product is available. This is about my third or fourth time going through the primer shortages. Around the early 90’s I figured out I should keep a good supply on hand. It’s worked out, I have enough to ride this out. Learn from this and you won’t be in the position you’re in at this point. Unclenick is right on with his comments. This WON’T be the last time.
Who is harry?so I see midway has gone down the road like gun broker with the higher prices bye bye harry
Gunbroker didn't go "down the road with the higher prices", sellers on GB did. Yes, some are scalping in the same sense that scalpers sell outrageously priced hard to get tickets to sporting events. But, that's nothing new on auction sites during shortages. It's not like they're scalping open heart surgery.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
.50 BMG has always been expensive to shoot.
Average Joe
New member
Their prices aren't that bad, it's the shipping that jacks up the price.
Midway has served me pretty darn well for a lot of years.More than that,they have served the shooting community pretty well for a of of years.
I'd call that a consistent pattern of behavior.
Which means my reaction to a price jump might be "Whoa!! What is going on here??!!! " High prices are a bummer.
But I also might remember Midway has given fair and reasonable prices on most everything over the years. Not necessarily the cheapest,but fair and reasonable.
I'm not going to react that Midway is trying to screw me. There is a lot in the shooting supply chain I don't know about. Unclenick pointed out some of it.
The world is an unsettled place right now. You can ponder the details of that yourself. A tank of gas costs more .A cart of groceries costs more.Expect next winter's heat bill to be high.
Components are scarce. Toilet paper was scarce. A lot of things have been scarce.Prices go up on scarce items.
There is a balance to achieve. If Midway gets in 2 million primers,and offers them at a reasonable price (today) of $50 a thousand, What will happen?
The jerks will buy it all up 50,000 primers at a time,and primers will be "Out of stock,no backorder" in two days. We create our own shortages.
Raising prices is one way of moderating sales to be able to have product in stock. $100 a thousand primers sucks, but if we need primers,at least they are in stock. For now,we might only buy 3000 primers.Its one way to try to make things work.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions that Larry has turned bad guy.
I suspect he's doing the best he can.
I also suspect every time the gubmint prints another trillion dollars out of thin air each dollar become worth less,
so buying the same item will cost more. Heavy economic theory!!
I don't blame Larry.
I'd call that a consistent pattern of behavior.
Which means my reaction to a price jump might be "Whoa!! What is going on here??!!! " High prices are a bummer.
But I also might remember Midway has given fair and reasonable prices on most everything over the years. Not necessarily the cheapest,but fair and reasonable.
I'm not going to react that Midway is trying to screw me. There is a lot in the shooting supply chain I don't know about. Unclenick pointed out some of it.
The world is an unsettled place right now. You can ponder the details of that yourself. A tank of gas costs more .A cart of groceries costs more.Expect next winter's heat bill to be high.
Components are scarce. Toilet paper was scarce. A lot of things have been scarce.Prices go up on scarce items.
There is a balance to achieve. If Midway gets in 2 million primers,and offers them at a reasonable price (today) of $50 a thousand, What will happen?
The jerks will buy it all up 50,000 primers at a time,and primers will be "Out of stock,no backorder" in two days. We create our own shortages.
Raising prices is one way of moderating sales to be able to have product in stock. $100 a thousand primers sucks, but if we need primers,at least they are in stock. For now,we might only buy 3000 primers.Its one way to try to make things work.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions that Larry has turned bad guy.
I suspect he's doing the best he can.
I also suspect every time the gubmint prints another trillion dollars out of thin air each dollar become worth less,
so buying the same item will cost more. Heavy economic theory!!
I don't blame Larry.
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Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
It is my opinion that this is just the beginning of the Ammo shortage. There are many storms coming and all emerging into the same path. Right now the shortage is just in spring training, this summer the games will begin. On top of a smorgasbord of shortages, demands, and laws Homeland Security has taken a major hit. More chaos to come this summer and continue.
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It is my opinion that this is just the beginning of the Ammo shortage.
that is what the politicians and gun show scalpers keep telling us anyway. Myself I have seen more powder hit the internet stores and primers on the shelves than I have seen in a year.
Sharpshooter284
Inactive
A quote from Powder Valley: Price Increases. Berger, Hodgdon, IMR, Ramshot, Accurate, Winchester powder have all announced price increases in the 5-10% range.
CCI, Federal, Remington, Speer have announced an impending price increase of 7+% on all items and 15% on primers.
And in response to "overbuying" another quote from Powder Valley:
The battle is tough but some people just don't care. I hate it. I really do. Today we had to block a few persons from accessing our website. We also had to cancel over $20,000 in orders. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. We could have let those orders go through. But, we didn't. It cost us over $1,200 to cancel those orders. Each credit card transaction costs us about 3%. Figure in that running the card cost us 3% and then crediting the transaction cost us another 3%. How many statements do we need to put on our website? How many places do we need to put where you have to agree to the daily and individual limitations. People try to act all slick willy and figure out ways around the limitations we've placed and then act all coy like they had no idea....... Come on folks. I may look like an idiot but most of the time I'm not and this ain't my first rodeo. Heck folks, I've even had people contact me and ask for me to charge them 10% more than our listed price and allow them to purchase $50,000 to $100,000 worth of powder per month. We're not going to do it folks. I've said this over and over. We're here because we're shooters supporting shooters. We need to work together through this!
I'm sure that $50k in powder would turn a 200+% profit for someone on Gunbroker
CCI, Federal, Remington, Speer have announced an impending price increase of 7+% on all items and 15% on primers.
And in response to "overbuying" another quote from Powder Valley:
The battle is tough but some people just don't care. I hate it. I really do. Today we had to block a few persons from accessing our website. We also had to cancel over $20,000 in orders. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. We could have let those orders go through. But, we didn't. It cost us over $1,200 to cancel those orders. Each credit card transaction costs us about 3%. Figure in that running the card cost us 3% and then crediting the transaction cost us another 3%. How many statements do we need to put on our website? How many places do we need to put where you have to agree to the daily and individual limitations. People try to act all slick willy and figure out ways around the limitations we've placed and then act all coy like they had no idea....... Come on folks. I may look like an idiot but most of the time I'm not and this ain't my first rodeo. Heck folks, I've even had people contact me and ask for me to charge them 10% more than our listed price and allow them to purchase $50,000 to $100,000 worth of powder per month. We're not going to do it folks. I've said this over and over. We're here because we're shooters supporting shooters. We need to work together through this!
I'm sure that $50k in powder would turn a 200+% profit for someone on Gunbroker
Mike Irwin
Staff
It's called the law of supply and demand.
It's called capitalism.
It's called panicked monkeys losing their crap and overbuying stuff out of fear that "GUBMINTGONTAKEMAHGUNZ!"
And, as pointed out in Sharpshooter's message, it's called mercenary pricks looking to take advantage of the situation at the expense of everyone else.
It's all of that and more. You'd have to be blind not to have seen how this has worked out over the last 18 months.
And you're complaining that one of the most honest and shooter supportive companies in the industry is having to raise their prices because THEY have been hit with prices increases from their suppliers, who have been hit with price increases from THEIR suppliers the whole way back to the start of the chain?
Maybe you'd like to switch your allegiance over to Cheaper than Dirt?
It's called capitalism.
It's called panicked monkeys losing their crap and overbuying stuff out of fear that "GUBMINTGONTAKEMAHGUNZ!"
And, as pointed out in Sharpshooter's message, it's called mercenary pricks looking to take advantage of the situation at the expense of everyone else.
It's all of that and more. You'd have to be blind not to have seen how this has worked out over the last 18 months.
And you're complaining that one of the most honest and shooter supportive companies in the industry is having to raise their prices because THEY have been hit with prices increases from their suppliers, who have been hit with price increases from THEIR suppliers the whole way back to the start of the chain?
Maybe you'd like to switch your allegiance over to Cheaper than Dirt?
Amen! CTD has to be the biggest misnomer ever.And you're complaining that one of the most honest and shooter supportive companies in the industry is having to raise their prices because THEY have been hit with prices increases from their suppliers, who have been hit with price increases from THEIR suppliers the whole way back to the start of the chain?
Maybe you'd like to switch your allegiance over to Cheaper than Dirt?
Btw, a couple of posts have mentioned Harry in reference to Midway. If you mean the founder/owner/CEO that's in the commercials, it's Larry.
101combatvet
New member
I was told that Winchester primers were made overseas; not sure how true that is, but mail to Europe has been horrible over the last year. Shipments on every scale have slowed down; just recently, things have started to get better.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"48.00 for cci primers at midsouth 60.00 at midway same product. CALL IT WHAT YOU LIKE GREED"
OMG... different companies have different prices for the same thing!
How horrible! I mean, no other company has ever done that... prices are uniform across the United States on all products, so Midway must be the great evil!
Jesus. Really?
OMG... different companies have different prices for the same thing!
How horrible! I mean, no other company has ever done that... prices are uniform across the United States on all products, so Midway must be the great evil!
Jesus. Really?
I always comparison shop before buying components. Buy them from Midsouth if they're cheaper there. It's that easy... Midway has never been the cheapest for ammo, primers or powder. Sometimes there's good deals on bullets.
What difference does it make if they're sold out everywhere? I could put up a website and price them at $20 and it doesn't matter if I never have any in stock.
What difference does it make if they're sold out everywhere? I could put up a website and price them at $20 and it doesn't matter if I never have any in stock.
$48 a 1000 for CCI at Midsouth and $60 at Midway
Uh Huh. I just looked at Midsouth with the filter "In Stock" I got the results "No products"
So you can't really order primers for $48 from Midsouth.
So Powder Valley has announced a 15% price increase on primers from the suppliers.. Lets do a little quick math. Its about a $7 increase. Hmmm. $48 plus $7 equals $55 will likely be the price of real versus imaginary primers when Midsouth gets them in.Most successful businesses set prices on replacement cost versus what they paid for the last ones.
Midsouth advises its taking 6 to 10 days to ship. That tells me they may not have time to update website prices on items they do not yet have an invoice for.
$55 primers are not is not too far off Midway at $60.
Seems like a whole lot of hissy fit over $5.
About "GREED" How is your demand for cheap primers any less "GREED" than getting emotional over even $12 difference in price? It seems to me if Larry is greedy over $12 Then Cpt Jack is equally greedy over the same $12.
Greed works both ways.
Only its really $5 after the price increase.
It don't seem worth getting your Speedos in a wedgie.
But you go ahead and buy your primers wherever you can find them.
Midsouth,Grafs,Midway,Powder Valley,Natchez,Brownells,....I think we are lucky to have all of them. They have long term interests in loyal customers.
You will find the scalpers at gunshows and auction sites.
Uh Huh. I just looked at Midsouth with the filter "In Stock" I got the results "No products"
So you can't really order primers for $48 from Midsouth.
A quote from Powder Valley: Price Increases. Berger, Hodgdon, IMR, Ramshot, Accurate, Winchester powder have all announced price increases in the 5-10% range.
CCI, Federal, Remington, Speer have announced an impending price increase of 7+% on all items and 15% on primers.
So Powder Valley has announced a 15% price increase on primers from the suppliers.. Lets do a little quick math. Its about a $7 increase. Hmmm. $48 plus $7 equals $55 will likely be the price of real versus imaginary primers when Midsouth gets them in.Most successful businesses set prices on replacement cost versus what they paid for the last ones.
Midsouth advises its taking 6 to 10 days to ship. That tells me they may not have time to update website prices on items they do not yet have an invoice for.
$55 primers are not is not too far off Midway at $60.
Seems like a whole lot of hissy fit over $5.
About "GREED" How is your demand for cheap primers any less "GREED" than getting emotional over even $12 difference in price? It seems to me if Larry is greedy over $12 Then Cpt Jack is equally greedy over the same $12.
Greed works both ways.
Only its really $5 after the price increase.
It don't seem worth getting your Speedos in a wedgie.
But you go ahead and buy your primers wherever you can find them.
Midsouth,Grafs,Midway,Powder Valley,Natchez,Brownells,....I think we are lucky to have all of them. They have long term interests in loyal customers.
You will find the scalpers at gunshows and auction sites.
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Mike Irwin
Staff
"About "GREED" How is your demand for cheap primers any less "GREED" than getting emotional over even $12 difference in price? It seems to me if Larry is greedy over $12 Then Cpt Jack is equally greedy over the same $12.
Greed works both ways."
An astute and on point observation.
Greed works both ways."
An astute and on point observation.
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