..calm yourself TSAVO...no one is advocating shooting anyone commiting any kind of crime without jusitifiable cause...but some crimes are more serious in nature..and what unarmed criminal is going to ignore an armed citizen telling him to stop...it's the idea that we must sit and watch powerless from a distance while the criminal does whatever he wants because the law is on his side that gets me upset...try to keep things in the right perspective...
Say I catch a perpetrator.....
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
The problem with chest beating threads is that they don't take a cold hard logical look at what is the best outcome of the encounter.
Is it to save the property? Is the cost of the property worth what may be the later costs due to the shooting aftermath.
Is it to make an ideological statement whatever the risk to one's life?
If one does shoot, there are significant finanacial, social and psychological consequences to self and family.
If you focus on the ideological statement, then don't whine when you get caught up in the system. It's nice to be so sure as an internet commando and lawyer of unknown credentials.
So many bytes, so much BS.
Is it to save the property? Is the cost of the property worth what may be the later costs due to the shooting aftermath.
Is it to make an ideological statement whatever the risk to one's life?
If one does shoot, there are significant finanacial, social and psychological consequences to self and family.
If you focus on the ideological statement, then don't whine when you get caught up in the system. It's nice to be so sure as an internet commando and lawyer of unknown credentials.
So many bytes, so much BS.
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TSAVO WROTE:
Such language. Careful tsavo....your intelligence (or lack of) is showing...
Actually it is quite complicated, and that seems to be what is confusing you so much. It is NOT a cut and dry, yes or no answer. There are pesky little things called CIRCUMSTANCES that will determine wether or not you can or will be justified in using deadly force to protect property.
But to answer a SIMPLE question SIMPLY....YES you CAN use deadly force to protect property anytime you want. * IF * you don't mind facing the legal consequences and quite probably rotting in jail for the rest of your life. But with this, like in all things....its your life....and your choice....and your butt....
And lastly, this is supposed to be an intelligent, civil discussion. If you are incapable of the first, at least make an attempt to comply with the second.
Such language. Careful tsavo....your intelligence (or lack of) is showing...
Actually it is quite complicated, and that seems to be what is confusing you so much. It is NOT a cut and dry, yes or no answer. There are pesky little things called CIRCUMSTANCES that will determine wether or not you can or will be justified in using deadly force to protect property.
But to answer a SIMPLE question SIMPLY....YES you CAN use deadly force to protect property anytime you want. * IF * you don't mind facing the legal consequences and quite probably rotting in jail for the rest of your life. But with this, like in all things....its your life....and your choice....and your butt....
And lastly, this is supposed to be an intelligent, civil discussion. If you are incapable of the first, at least make an attempt to comply with the second.
Once again, read my posts-apparently you haven't done that yet. I've said numerous times that if you use deadly force to protect property you will be in jail.
People seem to be confusing what I'm saying. They come back with something such as "well if you're protecting property and you're threatened with force"-well I never said that. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I said to protect PROPERTY, not your life.
People seem to be confusing what I'm saying. They come back with something such as "well if you're protecting property and you're threatened with force"-well I never said that. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I said to protect PROPERTY, not your life.
Blackwater OPS
New member
Who me?
And I posted the law that shows that statement is false. There are certainly times and circumstances where TX law allows you to legally use deadly force to protect property without going to jail.tsavo said:
I haven't come back with anything like that. I even posted the law showing that under the proper circumstances TX law will allow you to legally use deadly force to protect property even when your life is NOT in danger.tsavo said:
So did I. So does TX Law.tsavo said:
Can you ALWAYS use deadly force to protect property in TX? NO! Read the law.
Can you SOMETIMES use deadly force to protect property in TX even when your life is NOT in danger? YES! Read the law.
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You really must be mentally handicapped. I'll post the exact same thing I just did concering that law.
"And my response to that, like it has been before in this thread, is that it's really stupid to risk going to prison based on a law that says "sometimes". That's pretty vague to me, and again-which I already said-it's not worth risking that for a piece of property."
"And my response to that, like it has been before in this thread, is that it's really stupid to risk going to prison based on a law that says "sometimes". That's pretty vague to me, and again-which I already said-it's not worth risking that for a piece of property."
TSAVO, a little history of your comments shall we?
That was your very first post. And your question. And you happen to be WRONG. You didn't state wether or not it was worth it, just that you couldn't do it.
The fact is you CAN in some instances. WRONG AGAIN. (and rude)
Your next question. Again with no mention of if its WORTH it or not. (Which I answered)
Thats because your WRONG again. Must this go on? Yes it must....
Ah! Finally we get to the RISK! The COST! Is it worth it! But that was NOT the question I was answering as stated in message #84.
Actually, I happen to be a disabled veteran. But mentally? No. It seems the only mental problem here is your ability to keep your facts straight, though you backpedal very well.
That was your very first post. And your question. And you happen to be WRONG. You didn't state wether or not it was worth it, just that you couldn't do it.
The fact is you CAN in some instances. WRONG AGAIN. (and rude)
Your next question. Again with no mention of if its WORTH it or not. (Which I answered)
Thats because your WRONG again. Must this go on? Yes it must....
Ah! Finally we get to the RISK! The COST! Is it worth it! But that was NOT the question I was answering as stated in message #84.
Actually, I happen to be a disabled veteran. But mentally? No. It seems the only mental problem here is your ability to keep your facts straight, though you backpedal very well.
Give me a break! The law absolutely does NOT say "sometimes" and I find it borderline ludicrous that you would so much as IMPLY that it does.tsavo said:
I said "sometimes" by way of a VERY brief summary of the law. Since I have actually posted the entire applicable section of the text of the law, I didn't think it was necessary to post a complete summary. Particularly since I said twice in that post that you should read the law.
The law is ANYTHING but vague as you would know if you had so much as glanced at the text of the law that I posted for your perusal. In fact, if anything it is excessively specific.tsavo said:
Another post proving you have either not read or have not understood what's been posted here.
Gee the law isn't vague huh, yet you can't give a yes or no answer to the use of deadly force to protect property, that makes sense
The fact is I stated that you can't use deadly force to stop a thief from stealing your neighbors car, and people started bitching and arguing with me. Then a few respected memebers came in and agreed partly with what I was saying and people started changing their stories. I'm done with this thread.
The fact is I stated that you can't use deadly force to stop a thief from stealing your neighbors car, and people started bitching and arguing with me. Then a few respected memebers came in and agreed partly with what I was saying and people started changing their stories. I'm done with this thread.
kennybs plbg
New member
I guess if you don't know your rights, you have no rights.
In NY State The answer is YES YOU CAN and it is clear with no fancy wording.
NY State Penal Law
kenny b
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OMG, what ever shall we do!?Maybe this will shut you up.
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=436506
Here's a few exerts from that thread from people who actually know what they are talking about.
"Not to be insensitive, but the victim, initiating contact with the suspects, escelated this situation to a violent level.
The suspects could even go so far as to say that the shooting was a matter of self defense.
A CCW is designed to afford us a last chance effort of self defense.
A CCW does not give anyone the right to play "COP" or "VIGILANTE".
I do not mean to be so harsh, but situations such as this one could one day cost everyone the privilege of a CCW."
"2) Like my CCW instructor {A Virginia LEO} said: "Let the cops take care of the big picture." If I see guys jacking a car I will arm myself and dial 911."
"3) By confronting property thieves with his defense weapon CCW guy just escalated a non-violent theft into an armed confrontation. What if the CCW guy had shot and killed the thieves? I expect he would be looking at charges and prison time. "
And those are just quotes from the first page. Owned.
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=436506
Here's a few exerts from that thread from people who actually know what they are talking about.
"Not to be insensitive, but the victim, initiating contact with the suspects, escelated this situation to a violent level.
The suspects could even go so far as to say that the shooting was a matter of self defense.
A CCW is designed to afford us a last chance effort of self defense.
A CCW does not give anyone the right to play "COP" or "VIGILANTE".
I do not mean to be so harsh, but situations such as this one could one day cost everyone the privilege of a CCW."
"2) Like my CCW instructor {A Virginia LEO} said: "Let the cops take care of the big picture." If I see guys jacking a car I will arm myself and dial 911."
"3) By confronting property thieves with his defense weapon CCW guy just escalated a non-violent theft into an armed confrontation. What if the CCW guy had shot and killed the thieves? I expect he would be looking at charges and prison time. "
And those are just quotes from the first page. Owned.
Denny Hansen
Staff Emeritus
And maybe THIS will shut everyone up…
This board is dedicated to the responsible use of firearms. This particular forum is dedicated to TACTICS AND TRAINING, not chest thumping, name calling and acting like school kids. Recess is over, kiddies.
Denny
This board is dedicated to the responsible use of firearms. This particular forum is dedicated to TACTICS AND TRAINING, not chest thumping, name calling and acting like school kids. Recess is over, kiddies.
Denny
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