Savage Muzzlerloaders?

legal or not, i wouldnt own one and shoot smokeless, i will save that for centerfire.
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And again...why? You must like cleaning a lot better than I do. If I have to use a muzzleloader (and I do for the last 10 days of deer season here in NY) then I'm using smokeless. LOTS of advantages, NO disadvantages. Rifles are another subject altogether.

Zhe Wiz
 
FrontierGander said:
legal or not, i wouldnt own one and shoot smokeless, i will save that for centerfire.
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Well, I guess that's your choice. There's certainly no advantage to it. I can't say as I understand why anyone would not use the best equipment that they can get their hands on. There simply is no better ML than the Savage.

Of course, I don't understand the long bow and recurve guys either. The game is hard enough without handicapping myself.
 
Hey my flinter goes 19 shots before i get tired and sore, my accura ive shots 6 times with no problems ( ran out of ammo) Cleaning is something that comes natural. For those of you that leave an expensive investment dirty after you're done playing... Shame on you!

I shoot both compound and recurve ( once in a great while) so no argument there. Both are fun to use. The compound just has more expensive stuff on it that will break.
 
Hey my flinter goes 19 shots before i get tired and sore, my accura ive shots 6 times with no problems ( ran out of ammo) Cleaning is something that comes natural. For those of you that leave an expensive investment dirty after you're done playing... Shame on you!
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And after all that, I *still* have no idea why you refuse to shoot smokeless.

Zhe Wiz
 
I shoot both compound and recurve ( once in a great while) so no argument there. Both are fun to use. The compound just has more expensive stuff on it that will break.
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You sound like you have an irrationale fear of modern technology. If you truly believe that there is no advantage to the Savage ML and that the only difference between a compound and a recurve is that the compound is more likely to break... Well, I'm not sure what to say about that. No basis in reality at all, that's for sure.
 
simonkenton wrote:

On the thread about leaving a muzzleloader loaded long-term, you posted a quote from Randy Wakeman in which he said he would never do it, and you agreed with him wholeheartedly.
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I just posted the article. I did not AGREE with anyone!!

simonkenton wrote:
So, are you going to believe Randy on long term storage, but not believe him about the safety of the Savage?
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Wow, perhaps you should ACTUALLY read my post.....

BigV wrote:
Any additional information available other than the pictures?
I didn't see anything.
It would be nice to know the cause of the barrel exploding. Was there too much powder, double load or are these gun prone to this type of damage?

From the injuries I see in the picture, I would be very hesitant to to even fire one let alone own one if this is a common occurrence.
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So...., where is the part that I say anything about believing anybody regarding the safety of the Savage?
Please stop making stuff up, it make you look rather silly...
 
I love that link to pictures of a blown up gun.... as if that tells us ANYTHING.
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Especially a picture posted by a man with a personal vendetta against Savage. Kinda "coincidental" that there are THOUSANDS of these guns out there and this guy is the only one to have any published failures, and he's had two? Smells fishy.

The Savage smokeless is as "safe" as any muzzleloader. If I didn't believe that, I certainly wouldn't shoot one. It's a GREAT muzzleloader for anyone who can legally use smokeless powder.

Zhe Wiz
 
no fear, Just not for me. Like i said, if i wanted to shoot smokeless, i'd use a centerfire.
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Dude, that makes NO sense. I'd love to use a center fire too, but when law states "muzzleloader", you can't use one. The question isn't if a Savage smokeless is better than a center fire or not. The question is if it's better than other black powder muzzleloaders.

Do you even HAVE a reason for your black powder preference? I'm trying to see if you have any information that would be helpful to the OP, or if you're just saying "I wouldn't use smokeless so it must not be good". Because honestly, that's all I've heard so far.

Zhe Wiz
 
BigV, having posted the Randy article, wherein he opposed leaving a muzzleloader loaded over night, then you posted this:

Put it in the shower with you for the two months to over simulate the worst conditions.

Then take the gun out and bet your entire season on that one shot. If it fires you harvest a nice buck and have venison on the table for the rest of the year. If it doesn't, well then you starve....

Are you willing to take that chance?

I'm not.

For the few cents it costs for powder, bullet and primer I will be a little more responsible.
But then again, that's just me...

You are saying that you are "responsible" becaue you will not leave your rifle loaded over night. This means you agree with Randy.
When someone posts a c and p from an author, without comment, it implies agreement with it.

You are an argumentative fellow.
 
No reason to shoot smokeless. Why do you shoot smokeless? Just so you dont have to clean it that night or maybe a few days later?

300gr xtp, 120gr RS (88 weight) mmp-24 sabot, cci inline mzl primers.

3 shots @ 100 yards, No swabbing between shots, zero cool down.
XTP120grRS003.jpg


250gr Thor conicals, 105gr Pyro RS, Winchester 777 primers. 3 shots, 100 yards, a few minutes cool down time between each shot.
Accura250grBT004.jpg

Outside to outside,
Accura250grBT006.jpg


My brother in law with his first Inline Mzl buck he shot at 175 yards with the Thor load above.
JohnMLdeer004.jpg
 
FrontierGander said:
No reason to shoot smokeless. Why do you shoot smokeless?
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Seriously?

Ok, why smokeless and why Savage:

Dramatically lower cost per shot than Pyrodex
No corrosive residue
No heavy fouling
Less recoil for a similar velocity load
Your vision is not obscured after the shot
It is less flammable, more impact resistant, and safer to handle and store.
HUNDREDS of choices of propellant

The Savage is the only muzzleloader made that can pass SAMMI centerfire standards
It is the only truly sealed action muzzleloader on the market.
The strongest action of any muzzleloader on the market (chamber tested to 129,000 PSI)
The best trigger ever put on a factory muzzleloader.
The only muzzleloader factory pillar bedded with a floated barrel
One of the very few with 416 SS certified Gun Barrel Quality barrels (Savage makes their own barrels)
It cannot possibly stick a 209 shotshell primer due to its patented bolt face
It is the only production muzzleloader that is 100% function fired before shipment.
Easier to seat a sabot with the same pressure in a Savage, as there is dramatically less fouling to push your saboted projectile through


That info is all in the link I provided before.
Those are not only reasons TO shoot smokeless, they are an equally compelling list refuting your assertion that there is "no reason not to" shoot BP.
Considering that you have an undeniable vested interest in the continued use of relatively traditional ML technology, you're opinion can hardly be counted as unbiased. Additionally, since you can provide NO compelling reason for your opinion, I fail to see why anyone would be influenced by it at all. Your only evidence is 100 yard groups? Are you claiming that smokeless in the Savage can not produce those groups? If the Savage CAN produce those groups (it can, or better) then we are left with a list of reasons why you're STILL better off with smokeless.
 
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No answer then?

Your best evidence is a disgruntled ex-employee who appears to be the only man in the world to inexplicably blow up two Savages all the while remaining completely unharmed while claiming to have been holding the guns when the forearms SHATTERED?

Very convincing.

When you said you shot BP because you simply prefer it I could buy it. Since then, your information and opinions are suspect AT BEST.
 
Minus shots 1 and 2, the last 4 shots were pretty sweet for an open side CVA Hawken sidelock @ 113 yards :D
hawkenprb664-1.jpg

hawkenprb664001.jpg


Groups like that make traditional stuff so much fun. And i get it clean her later on. Maybe my inline tomorrow if the weather holds
 
savage

HUNDREDS of choices of propellant
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Is that really so?
I understand that the Savage is approved for only certain smokeless propellants, four if I remember my reading, not just any smokeless rifle powder. Which ones are recommended by Savage?

Pete
 
I understand that the Savage is approved for only certain smokeless propellants, four if I remember my reading, not just any smokeless rifle powder. Which ones are recommended by Savage?
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Savage shows several "recommended loads" but those are not the exclusive powders to be used. The powders that are NOT supposed to be used are "ball type (spherical), shotshell only (flake type) and Hodgdon Lil' Gun"

http://www.savagearms.com/images/pdf/manuals/MLII_loads.pdf

Savages recommended loads only list three smokeless powders. One of those is N110, but a lot of people use N120 which is not listed.

It's a lot easier to say what NOT to use than what TO use.
 
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