Savage failing to make groups

you really need to shoot it with a good rest or locked down to determine that it is for sure the rifle or ammo and not the shooter my guess is alot of it is the shooter.
 
Are you adjusting your scope properly for parallax at distance?

Usually when a rifle has vastly different groups at different ranges it is an optics problem, not a rifle problem.

Jimro
 
Honestly until you have a proper bench rest to shoot from it's difficult to understand problem, build or buy a portable bench then you can get a better picture of the rifles accuracy, also think downsizing to a 223,243 if shooting at targets, less recoil, cheaper to shoot.;)
 
Nobody has asked the obvious question - how long are you waiting between shots? If you are not waiting for the barrel to cool down, then do so. POI from a hot barrel is going to be different that POI from a cold barrel.
 
wow lots of suggestions thanks. I'll try to cover as much as I can in one response. I'm shooting from a bipod and "sandsock", depending on the location we're at. Nothing hard is touching the barrel, I just took the entire receiver out of the stock and back in again, nothing out of the ordinary there except the bore bolts were pretty dang tight. I'm sure me as the shooter is part of the issue since I'm not some expert marksman, but when I can hit clay pigeons (about 4-5" across) with a .223 with open sights at 100-150 yards, I'm pretty sure I should be able to make a marginal group, not the random spread i've been getting with the 7mm. I'm not really flinching, I've had people watch to make sure, and they say that there's no flinch before the shot. I hardly feel the recoil because of the recoil pad, so I don't think I'm flinching before. Yes I should probably get to a range and see if i can borrow or use a bench or sled, but that would involve an 8 hour trip to the Tucson range where my buddy lives, and that's not going to happen right now. When we clean our bores, we run a few dry through first, then soak it with a few wet, then do a few runs with a copper brush, then a few dry, then alternate wet with a few dry until the squares come out pretty much clean.
 
sorry forgot the rings and bases. The bases are the stock savage bases that come with the rifle. I'm planning on upgrading the bases to a picatinny style with weaver six hole rings soon (next paycheck). But though the rings i have aren't space shuttle steel that would hold against a rocket's recoil, they haven't moved or slid at all. I suppose it could be the rings, but the fact that the rifle produced the same results with the simple bushnell scope and rings makes me wonder if that's what it is.
 
Stop cleaning your barrel. Let it get a dozen shots down it, THEN shoot for a group. Most rifles shoot much better on a slightly fouled barrel.
 
With respect to your rings, it is not just about tightness. If the rings don't evenly contact the scope tube, the scope alignment will be shifting, just ever so slightly, every time you fire. That means the aim point in the scope will be in a different place every time you aim. This might be virtually unnoticeable at closer ranges and tend to become more pronounced at greater distances.

Another possibility is the if the bases are not aligned with one another AND with the bore axis, you get the same problem. Even though the scope seems to be bore sighted it is just ever so slightly off-axis. Again the inaccuracy will tend to increase with range.

If the bases are unevenly torqued, this could do it too.

Finally, check the torque on your action screws (don't use the TLAR method - "that looks about right"; instead use a real torque driver). Tighten the front screw last to shift the load against the rear of the receiver.

Earlier you mentioned that the dollar bill test failed to confirm the barrel was fully free floating. If one of the rises in the stock that is near contact is off of the vertical axis the barrel harmonics are going to induce some irregular lateral movements in the path of bullet.

I agree that with your reported skills you should be able to print a group, and a much tighter group, at the ranges you are shooting.

Someone above mentioned that given your description of the problem, the most likely culprit is the mounting of the optics. I'm inclined to agree. Good article in last months American Rifleman on mounting scopes. I'd start there.
 
Also try Winchester white box 175 grain bullets for your rifle.

The heavier pill will have different harmonics. A buddy of mine has a 7mm Rem Mag that will shoot under an inch with pretty much any brand of ammo (plus my handloads) as long as the bullet is 175 grains. He tried some 140 grain bullets and liked them because "It feels like the rifle is more powerful" (his exact words) but the 140's grouped about 6 inches at 100.

Jimro
 
I'm no expert frankly I barely know anything at all, but I have a 110 in 30.06. After trying several different brands of ammo I found that Federal Power Shok 150 grain Soft Point produced the best groups for my rifle, that is after I replaced the trigger.
 
Do not underestimate the effect of bad ammo. I have a Remington 700 vs in .308 that, among other things

- Hates any sort of factory ammo over 150 gr.
- Can maintain 3 inch groups with the standard Core Lokt stuff, and no better with more expensive stuff.
- Will shoot sub 1" groups all day long with my own middle-of-the-road reloads (bulk Hornady 150 gr, IMR 4895).

I would never have guessed that reloads would make that much of a difference since I never experienced that with pistol rounds. But the rifle turns from ho-hum into an absolute tack driver with the reloads. It's uncanny.

Also, I find that I get superior accuracy using a folding bipod off a wooden bench than off of any other kind of rest (towels, sandbags, etc). I think the reason for this is that it allows me to stabilize the rifle with just a tiny amount of forward shoulder pressure, which allows me to have a much looser grip and smoother trigger pull with my hand. If you feel almost any tension in your trigger hand, you're probably doing something wrong.
 
Could be one of many things, and many of them have been suggested. But, I belieive both of Doyle's posts are the best place to start. I have a 111 in 30-06 and the barrel heats up very quickly. As in, three quick shots and the barrel is VERY warm to the touch. You must have patience to let these "pencil" barrels cool between shots. The 7mm will heat up much quicker than your .223. Also, after I do a thorough bore cleaning, it can take as many as ten rounds for the rifle to settle in. Again, this is a 111 in 30-06 that is nearly 20 years old, and has reacted the same to barrel heat and cleaning regimen since day one.
 
I'll have to try these suggestions. Too bad reloading is so expensive to start out with. I'll have to go visit my reloading buddy and try out some loads. I need a torque wrench for my car anyway, so that would definitely cross over to the gun. I need to pick up a picatinny rail and some weaver rings anyway so maybe that'll help.
 
I need a torque wrench for my car anyway, so that would definitely cross over to the gun.
Click to expand...

Nope. Torque wrench for your car would measure in foot pounds. A torque wrench for gunsmithing measures in inch pounds (i.e. much less torque applied to a screw).
 
Here's what you need to do....

Go to a good range. I'm not talkin the local spray and pray joint but a good rifle range. Iszak Waltons or the like can be pretty down to earth. Now when you go, dress the part. Put your hat on the right way, wear pants that fit, have no holes and a belt. Leave the beer t-shirts at home and if your underwear shows give it up. When you get there do a lot of looking around, talk to people and ask advice. Tell them you are new and have them check your scope and gun. Have them watch you shoot or have them shoot your gun. Before long you will have all the answers you need. Or you could just go back to playing COD.

LK
 
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