Safe distance to shoot steel?

I have been a trainer for many years and I have also set up shooting courses for many other trainers. We have made steel targets with a "twist". What I do is to make a 3" long hanger welded only on one side of the back of the targets up to 8" in size, and a 5"-6" hanger for targets of 10" and larger, so they hang with a slant toward the shooter. This makes the bullet glance off to the side with every hit, as long as the rounds don't pock the face very deeply. Thick AR500 steel prevents the deep pocks.

Such targets do best when they are hung between the support and the target itself with at least 3 links of chain on the back so the targets can bounce a bit from the impacts. Some were hung only with chain, but many had hinged bars with loops on the end to take the short chains. A non-solid suspension with a slanted face makes all the bullet turn some, so none of them will come straight back.

The slant can be to the side or downward, but for close shooting the sideways slat if what you want. At very close range the bullets can bounce back some, but never straight back so the shooter is not endangered. (Note: because the bullet can bounce back to some extent the shooter must be alone for such drills with NO ONE being or behind him and/or off to his side toward the deflecting bullets direction of angle. )

One set I made about 20 years ago could be shot with a 45 ACP using lead bullet from 2 feet, and not one bullet even splashed any lead fragments at a shooters.

Today for real close shooting the use of plastic is likely to be a better option because it's far cheaper and 100% safe , but if you set your steel targets up at the correct angles you can shoot them from very close up.
 
I shot myself in the shin shooting at a steel target intended for 9mm at 25 yards.
The energy was mostly gone, it stung quite a bit and broke the skin a little.
I did hear it making the classic ricochet sound as it headed my way.
I think it was a freak event, however.
 
Well is sounds to me like too many of us have had,"freak events".:eek: I think I'm gonna avoid steel plates at close range now. I got hit a couple of inches above my left wrist. luckily I was wearing jacket and long-sleeve shirt, because it hit me right on the radius. It still felt like somebody hit me with a farrier's hammer and it ached for a few minutes. We were able to make adjustments and finish out our shooting without further incidents. Luckily, I wasn't really harmed, but it could have been an emergency situation. It was certainly a wake-up call. If you think it can't happen to you, then it probably will if you continue.
What are the odds? What would you gamble your eyes, your teeth, or your life on?
 
Houses down range? Where the heck do you shoot, man?
I'm thinking that the safe distance from your steel depends upon caliber, bullet construction, velocity, angle of plate, the swing of the darn thing, and maybe several variables that I haven't thought of yet. While it all matters, yet none of it matters to you until you've been hit, or at least can forsee that you could be hit by a ricochet.
 
At our heavily used private range we require 25 yards back for pistol, and 100 yards back for rifle. Our plates are ar500, hung straight down on old conveyor belt strips and bolted to the strips. The distances set were a combination of factors including no full time range officers, bolts used to hang the targets, damage to the targets, having a common distance to shoot at when crowded and safty of others just spectating.

Shooting suppressed is a new realization to how much "shrapnel" can come off a target and especially the ground surrounding the target. On the pistol range we now keep conveyor belt below the targets to catch shrapnel, as the dirt immediately below the targets is quickly blasted away. Bullets can also hit the bolt heads, and 25 yard distance at pistol range is in hope most material that occasionally bounces back loses a lot of energy by 25 yards. If you shoot steel, at some point you will be subject to material coming back.

We also request the targets be shot at head on as much as possible, not at wide angles.
 
The plates I've bought came with recommendations for > 75 ... or was it 100 yards for rifle. And 10 yards for pistol. For rifle what I've read is it's the speed that causes surface damage.

I've shot my plates at 7 yards with pistols to try point shooting, but you get some little fragments brushing your face (and glasses / safety glasses) occasionally so I keep it around 10 yards. Haven't tried frangibles.
 
Even the plates are angled down, the ground in front need to have soft surfaces to capture the ricochets, or they could just skip on the hard surfaces and hit the shooter. 100 yd for rifle seems safe.

-TL

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The plates I've bought came with recommendations for > 75 ... or was it 100 yards for rifle. And 10 yards for pistol. For rifle what I've read is it's the speed that causes surface damage.

I've shot my plates at 7 yards with pistols to try point shooting, but you get some little fragments brushing your face (and glasses / safety glasses) occasionally so I keep it around 10 yards. Haven't tried frangibles.



Even with frangible you get some peppering, in my experience. It is noticeably less, however, than FMJ and smaller pieces.


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I was doing a 3 gun shoot and saw a girl with a 9mm get a bleeding forehead cut from one of her ricochets vs. plates at 15-20 yards.
It's not uncommon to see (or feel) ricochet lead or gliding metal behind our local indoor range when it's steels day. That range is set up for 17 yards and is pistol only.

Wear your protection.
 
I shoot here on the farm at ~8x15" steel railroad tie plates. Some are dimpled from use with deer rifles shot at under 100 yds. That said, I've been nicked by fragments at 20+ yards on several occasions. RR tie plates are not hardened for those that are interested...but they're free...I do have some reactive flip up round 6" plates that do not cause a problem beyond 15 yds. Setting the angle on either type is critical to avoid splinters. YMMv Rod
 
I have had 'kickback' off a tree stump and also at the range at which angled steel backstop should prevent this. This is not a pure ricochet but rather full bullet straight kickback. Prolly 8 or 10 times in @68 years of shooting. It would seem impossible at a range with slanted steel backstop - but it happened anyway. Got smacked good and they closed down the range to investigate. I asked a physics prof friend who was at the range, and he said kickback can occur off any surface except water.
 
I have also seen/been hit with spall from 9mm/40 on a 3-gun pistol range. The shooter was somewhere between 5-10 yds and he got hit in the leg and actually fell on his knee because it hurt that bad. These were fall-away plates, as in they were not directly secured to anything, they were just sitting on a pylon. I got a few fragments in the face (was wearing safety glasses) and after we made sure he was okay (shooter just got some bruising), we all took a moment to realize that this is why you wear safety gear. And we also made sure to turn the plates a little so they faced more downrange.

We never shot at any plates with rifles under 60yds, but they also checked everyone's rifle ammo to make sure it was not above a certain velocity (no M855 or similar). So definitely part of the recommendation is damage and the rest is ricochet.

Always wear your safety gear.
 
PlatinumCore16 said:
We never shot at any plates with rifles under 60yds, but they also checked everyone's rifle ammo to make sure it was not above a certain velocity (no M855 or similar). So definitely part of the recommendation is damage and the rest is ricochet.
Did they allow M193?

M193 has a higher velocity than M855, but M855 has a penetrator tip. I suspect had more to do with why they didn't allow its use on steel targets.
 
Yes, it can be a very serious problem and danger. You hear a lot of things on the internet, a lot of nonsense. Most you can just ignore. But I would heed caution with steel plates and take shooting them very seriously.
 
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Here on our farm, I was nicked twice in 5 rounds, yesterday. The gun was a .41 Magnum with LSWC's at ~950 fps and the plates were railroad tie plates mentioned in my previous post. The range was 25 yds.

Checking the plate afterwards, I found that it was almost perfectly perpendicular to my line of shot...I re-rigged for a downward angle as a result. No damage to me other than the BB gun pellet feel of the fragment hitting my jacket.

I'll add, "ck the plate angle" to my to-do list before shooting steel again!

Rod
 
My plan is to hang the gongs from 1" by 1/8" bar, not chain. I'll have little bits of pipe over the horizontal member that supports all the gongs. The 1/8" bar will be welded to the bits of pipe, extending down. Bolts will attach the ends of the flat bar to the gongs. The bolts will be an inch or two longer than necessary, to make the gongs angle toward the ground a little.

The idea is to let the gongs swing backward and forward but not from side to side, which would be annoying.

So...any dire predictions regarding the design?
 
The target stand is built and mostly painted. I have to paint a few details. I used truck bed paint, which is very tough.

I have my first gong attached. I will have to take it off to paint the flat bar that holds it up, but it's basically done. If anyone has safety-related comments to make, I am listening.

This squirrel gong is 3/8" steel. I kind of wish I had gone for 3/8" for all 4 targets now that I see how heavy they are.

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