Saddam..............

Were the "fanatical Muslim terrorists" been given free rain by the Hussein government, the Chaldean Catholics there would have been their first targets.
Click to expand...

That is where you made the claim. You´re seizing on Saudi Arabia because it´s the only country on the list without a significant percentage of Christians. Do you think Lebanon and Palestine and Jordan are extremist-free?

Your assertion that christians were under the protection of the Hussein government is absurd. They were no more protected than the coptic christians in Egypt, which is to say that, as normal members of the arab society, they were mainly left alone. That is why they were not "the first targets" of groups like Al Qaeda, not because Saddam cared for the well-being of other religions or because Mubarak did. And it is the same story in every country in the region. Al Qaeda is first and foremost anti-American.

As for the theology, you are incorrect. See:

http://www.chaldeansonline.net/church.html

For a basic explanation of the differences.
 
Butch50, another reason why terrorists may be avoiding chemical and biological weapons as a replacement for ordinary bombs is that they may not want to die before they're ready. The equipment necessary to safely handle chemical and biological weapons attracts attention. It's not easy to install fume hoods in a rented flat in London, either.

Joe Jihad may have no problem blowing himself up in a fish market, but does he want to risk death caused by sarin, or a prolonged, agonizing illness caused by some biological agent?
 
Tyme: You may be correct, I don't understand the culture or the mind set well enough to predict their behavior, or even to understand what I observe of their behavior. It may be that Joe Jihad (I like that term) is happy to explode instantly but not happy to die slowly. Also it may be that the slow death would allow for prolonged interrogations, thus a security risk.

On the other hand surely they are clever enough to come up with a hermetically sealed capsule that can be opened up remotely, much like the roadside bombs they use. A simple lunch thermos would suffice for carrying the agent around, and a very small explosive device, just enough to crack it open would be all that is required to pop it open. Plant that in a crowded area and detonate from a distance. Or even carry it on their person when they explode themselves and some or most of the agent would still disperse and they get their instant death to boot.

Now I have talked myself back into thinking they can't get or make the stuff. I think if they had their hands on it they would be using it, somehwere.
 
Being a dictator isn't inherently bad, neither is fascism. For some countries they are the best choice for government. Not for the US though...

In the past however, fascist regimes have almost always been "evil" in the common use of the word.
 
shootingstudent,

[LAK]Were the "fanatical Muslim terrorists" been given free rain by the Hussein government, the Chaldean Catholics there would have been their first targets.
Click to expand...
Is not stating that:
[shootingstudent] .. the lack of attacks on Christians means that Al Qaeda does not exist
Click to expand...
You´re seizing on Saudi Arabia because it´s the only country on the list without a significant percentage of Christians. Do you think Lebanon and Palestine and Jordan are extremist-free?
Click to expand...
According to your source number one it has none. Zero. According to your source number two it has "500,000 to [perhaps] one million".

Lebanon and Palestine have had ongoing internal and border conflicts in which Christian and Muslim factions have been caught up in for decades. Many Christians have been murdered there or simply died in the ongoing fighting.
Your assertion that christians were under the protection of the Hussein government is absurd
Click to expand...
I see; how many Christians - Catholic or Eastern Orthordox - were killed in fighting or murdered by Muslim extremists in Iraq prior to the invasion under the Hussein government? Had their churches bombed? Their women and children raped? Their homes ransacked? Their businesses attacked?
They were no more protected than the coptic christians in Egypt, which is to say that, as normal members of the arab society, they were mainly left alone.
Click to expand...
You are apparently completely ignorant as to the persecution of Christians in Egypt. Here's an intro for you:
http://www.jubileecampaign.co.uk/world/egy1.htm
Al Qaeda is first and foremost anti-American
Click to expand...
Tripe. It is the State of Israel - "the Jews" - that is the supposed boogeyman to the "Arab and Muslim world" and "the extremists".

You need to throughly read all the material concerning the Chaldean Catholics. If you do, you will see that the Chaldean Rite is, and has been for some time, what is referred to as in Union with Rome. It is currently a Rite of the Roman Church.

That means that outside of certain permitted practices and insignificant differences, the theology is the same. It must be to be recognized by, and as being, In Union with the Roman Church. That means it must hold the same Divine Traditions, dogmatic theology etc.

The differences are in certain permitted practices and issues that were in place for a long period of time, which do not conflict with dogmatic and other matters De Fide, and are therefore exclusive to the particular Rite of the Church. Earlier in history this was not so - but it is now and has been for some time.
 
LAK,

Now it's your turn to provide some evidence showing that coptic and chaldean christians have been specifically targeted by extremists. Foreign christian missionaries are targeted by virtually all non-western nations in some form or another. Your one source on persecution deals with egypt, and predictably is a missionary source. Boutros Boutros Ghali, you know, former head of the UN from Egypt, is a Coptic christian. Let's see something about coptic (ie, arabic speaking and traditionally egyptian) christians being attcked.

I'd also like to see your evidence that terror groups are targeting traditional arab christians in other parts of the middle east.
 
shootingstudent,

You are sort of slipping into cassette player mode again.

Now it's your turn to provide some evidence showing that coptic and chaldean christians have been specifically targeted by extremists
Click to expand...
I gave you a website that has plenty of specific examples. If you take the trouble to run key words in each instance in a search engine you will find a whole pile of articles for yourself.

Real persecution of Christians by Muslim factions has been very common in the rest of the Middle East; including Egypt. As it has been in SE Asia and Indonesia. It is a fact that is conveniently ignored by our former and current government, those of Europa and others. It follows that it is largely some private organizations that have the most information in one place at any given time about the subject. You can chose to believe what you want, and who you want.

Boutros Boutros by-Golly is a crook - like every other head of that international criminal organization called "the United Nations".
 
LAK,

You posted a website that refers only to evangelical missionaries in Egypt, and even then only in general. Documentation and names are nil. Then, you repeated your claim about persecution. Again, I'd like to see some evidence that ARAB christian groups, the traditional residents of the region, are specifically targeted by islamic extremists.

Boutros Boutros Ghali may be a crook, but he is also a christian. If extremists attack christians, how did a Christian end up being Egypt's number one man at the UN? Your own source claims that Egypt persecutes Christians in every imaginable way, so how did Ghali end up in his position?

I am forced to repeat myself, sometimes like a recorder, because you continue to assert an endless stream of claims without providing any sort of evidence. When you asked, I provided documentation for my assertions about the large christian population in the middle east. Now that you've gotten over the name-calling stage (almost), let's see if we can get on to the "supporting my claims" stage of debate development.
 
Shootinstudent...

LAK will NEVER admit he's wrong or misinformed. We are all flawed, ignorant peons with whom he humors himself.
Don't take what he writes personally. I honestly believe that he enjoys provoking others with his spurious 'facts', unsupportable assertions and condescending tone. He's a legend in his own mind. :)
 
shootingstudent
You posted a website that refers only to evangelical missionaries in Egypt, and even then only in general. Documentation and names are nil. Then, you repeated your claim about persecution. Again, I'd like to see some evidence that ARAB christian groups, the traditional residents of the region, are specifically targeted by islamic extremists.
Click to expand...
You must be blind, or illiterate. There are many cited incidents on the opening page of that one website.

Run the keywords "persecution christians egypt" into google.com and you will get two-hundred and sixty thousand hits. Here are the first five relevent. You do the rest:

http://www.copts.net/index.asp

http://www.jubileecampaign.co.uk/world/egy1.htm

http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm

http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/persecution/facts/a0029384.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

Type the keywords "persecution christians egypt saudi arabia iran syria lebanon" into google.com and you will pull up something more than thirty-eight thousand hits.

Here's the first five relevent on a plate for you - you do the rest:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/z/christians.htm

http://www.hrw.org/worldreport/Mideast.htm

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1993/WR93/Mew.htm

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=10242

http://www.eerdmans.com/baileyinterview.htm

Boutros Boutros Ghali may be a crook, but he is also a christian. If extremists attack christians, how did a Christian end up being Egypt's number one man at the UN? Your own source claims that Egypt persecutes Christians in every imaginable way, so how did Ghali end up in his position?
Click to expand...
I have not stated that the sovereign state of Egypt has been engaged in the persecution of Christians. There has been a history of the persecution of Christians in that country by Muslim groups etc.

By-Golly has never addressed this to my knowledge. By-Golly may have professed to be a Christian, may have been at one time - or may not have been at all. He is one man in the discussion of a general climate in a major region of the world.
 
gburner,

You post so many contradictions you are beginning to look like a big joke.

In a related thread, you claimed I had not offerred any solutions to a problem. Not true, and you know it - or you are suffering from amnesia again.

Grow up or float away.
 
A crook? That may be the least of his problems. JT

TIME: How do you feel about criticisms from the U.S. Congress?

Boutros-Ghali: Maybe I am an optimist. I believe the United Nations is popular with American public opinion.
 
Sorry

Sorry I have been away......

Thought I should come back and throw a little water on this fire........

I think we could relax a tad and take a breath........Lots of anger brewing over what my original post turned into here. Sorry about that......

I think LAK has given a little more extra reading than I care to look at but thanks just the same. We all should take a chill on this one because I am sure the moderators are about ready to lock it down......


Nice to debate but from Sadam to this.........what a stretch............

Thanks again for such a huge interest....... and the response everyone has made...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top