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S&W Shield 9EZ shoots low
- Thread starter ciwsguy
- Start date
603Country
New member
My oldest son in law, who may be the world’s worst pistol shot, brought over his new S&W 9mm. On a man sized splatter target at 15 yards, he shot into the ground or the very bottom edge of the target. Then I shot the pistol and found that it was very accurate. He shot it again, and hit the ground every time, which is about 3 feet low at 15 yards. I had him shoot the pistol off the sandbag rest and he found the center of the target. Since then, in subsequent shooting sessions and a little suggesting from me, he has gotten much better.
When I have to adjust sights on a handgun, if the sights need adjusting, I use the sandbags. I’m a pretty fair shot, but using the bags takes me somewhat out of the process. When I have the sights set right, and know for sure the pistol sights aren’t misaligned, then I’m confident that any good or bad shooting from now on is all on me.
My 380 EZ sights were off from the factory. It shot a bit wide right. I put it on the bags and confirmed it was the sights, and not me. I did the adjustment, used the bags again till I had it just right. There is no shame in utilizing a sandbag rest to verify sight adjustment. We do it with rifles.
As for the OP’s 9mm EZ, from what I’ve read it appears to be a pistol sight problem and not user error. That seems odd, but so be it. If the 9mm EZ sights are as simple as the 380 EZ sights, it is hard to imagine them being messed up to any degree. But I guess they are. So...order some tritium night sights and have them put on. That’ll be justifiable to the wife.
When I have to adjust sights on a handgun, if the sights need adjusting, I use the sandbags. I’m a pretty fair shot, but using the bags takes me somewhat out of the process. When I have the sights set right, and know for sure the pistol sights aren’t misaligned, then I’m confident that any good or bad shooting from now on is all on me.
My 380 EZ sights were off from the factory. It shot a bit wide right. I put it on the bags and confirmed it was the sights, and not me. I did the adjustment, used the bags again till I had it just right. There is no shame in utilizing a sandbag rest to verify sight adjustment. We do it with rifles.
As for the OP’s 9mm EZ, from what I’ve read it appears to be a pistol sight problem and not user error. That seems odd, but so be it. If the 9mm EZ sights are as simple as the 380 EZ sights, it is hard to imagine them being messed up to any degree. But I guess they are. So...order some tritium night sights and have them put on. That’ll be justifiable to the wife.
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stinkeypete
New member
Suggestion for removing the “it must be the user” argument:
It’s true that grip and trigger control can result in different Points of Impact. Here is what I have done. Using a standard target (circles, nra) at a standard distance (in one case, 15 yards, longest that indoor range had) I:
Shoot 10 right handed, off hand
Shoot 10 left handed, offhand
10 right dominant from bags
10 left hand dominant from bags
10 with very different with ammo
10 more with another different ammo
Transfer all hole positions to a “clean” (no holes) target, a different color pen for each set above.
When an obvious result is “it’s the gun”, send picture of results to manufacturer and tell them you expect it to be made right promptly.
If they do right by you, (Ruger had mine back and perfect in 2 weeks!) report good satisfaction.
If the manufacturer doesn’t, try again, going up the chain. If stll no love, post results here and never buy that brand again.
It’s true that grip and trigger control can result in different Points of Impact. Here is what I have done. Using a standard target (circles, nra) at a standard distance (in one case, 15 yards, longest that indoor range had) I:
Shoot 10 right handed, off hand
Shoot 10 left handed, offhand
10 right dominant from bags
10 left hand dominant from bags
10 with very different with ammo
10 more with another different ammo
Transfer all hole positions to a “clean” (no holes) target, a different color pen for each set above.
When an obvious result is “it’s the gun”, send picture of results to manufacturer and tell them you expect it to be made right promptly.
If they do right by you, (Ruger had mine back and perfect in 2 weeks!) report good satisfaction.
If the manufacturer doesn’t, try again, going up the chain. If stll no love, post results here and never buy that brand again.
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Even my 2 642s shoot to the top of the front sight with 158 gr ammo. 2 Colts 1911s shoot to the top of the front sight, LC9 shoots to the top of the front sight, DW Valkyrie shoots to top of the front sight, Rossi 2" shoots to the top of the front sight. GI 1911, shoots to the top of the front sight. This being said, I have 4 or 5 that shoot or shot low when I bought them. It's a QC problem and a mfg problem they don't care to address. Combat sight picture MY FOOT!
HighValleyRanch
New member
Doesn't seem likely. The bullet will exit the bore in a straight line. If the bore is pointing straight at the target, how could a bullet deviate that much from the bore line. It would have to be bouncing off the top somehow to deviate from a pretty straight line exit.
The barrel would have to be pointing visually low for it to hit 48 inches low at ten yards!
When something like this is supposed to happen, the best thing is to set the target at two yards, verify the POI, then move back to 5 yards and see the POI.
The barrel would have to be pointing visually low for it to hit 48 inches low at ten yards!
When something like this is supposed to happen, the best thing is to set the target at two yards, verify the POI, then move back to 5 yards and see the POI.
No. The closest I could get to the desired height was the next-to-shortest sight height. Think it was .030 inches shorter than factory sight. Probably could have gone with the shortest height, but after filing on the replacement and taking a closer look at the original 0.012 gap between the slide and the sight (the gap is no longer there now) I think the sight height is now reduced by about 0.042 inches.
So everyone is aware, the Dawson Precision replacement sight for the M&P Shield will also work on the M&P Shield 9 EZ.
So everyone is aware, the Dawson Precision replacement sight for the M&P Shield will also work on the M&P Shield 9 EZ.
I just sold mine. Shot low also. I could hit center by holding higher than 12:00. Did not want to have to do that. Changed sites at LGS to Tritium night sights. Same result. All my other guns are without this issue. Picked up a Beretta 92fs. No problem with that gun. I thought the grip safety on the EZ might be effecting my trigger pull. Don't have to worry any longer.
Donald duck
New member
You will find fixed sighted handguns that do not shoot point of aim. I thought most people were aware of that fact. That is why they make adjustable sights.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Not including the OP, but from many years at the range and club, I have seen too many times a shooter complain about the small gun shooting too low. And then taking the gun and shooting it with no problem. Invariably it was in my opinion always the shooter. Either unfamiliar with the gun or just bad trigger control. I remember one shooter that had actually cursed a certain firearm. Said it shot too low. Had it sent back to the manufacture two times and cursed that manufacturer to no end. Lousy customer service he ranted. One that does NOT even look at a gun and just sends it back.
Since I owned the same gun, I asked him one day if he would bring the gun to the club the next following weekend. I took the gun and ran 3-4" groups easily at 15yds.
It is my opinion that a owner of a firearm must spend quality time with the firearm he chooses. It takes a while to morph with the gun. The Grip angle, the trigger, the recoil etc take more than a box of ammo to shoot well and really become one with the gun.
I cannot even remember when the last time I put any firearm pistol or revolver on a sandbag or rest. Usually I can tell right away if I am off and adjust accordingly. Most of the hand guns like Pocket guns to compacts all shoot with accuracy, just that they are all different in grip etc. You Must Spend time with the gun. And do this before you invest in different sights. What seems off at first, may very well shoot perfectly once the shooter adjust to the minute differences of a new gun.Many people do not realize it does not take much to change the poi in a firearm. DAO revolvers are a good example of this. I cannot tell you how bad I was when I first started shooting the LCR9mm. Terrible. But after thousands of rounds down range is a completely different story. And that gun shot low for the longest time. Not any more. No Low shooting, either the gun self corrected itself or I just learned how to shoot it.
Since I owned the same gun, I asked him one day if he would bring the gun to the club the next following weekend. I took the gun and ran 3-4" groups easily at 15yds.
It is my opinion that a owner of a firearm must spend quality time with the firearm he chooses. It takes a while to morph with the gun. The Grip angle, the trigger, the recoil etc take more than a box of ammo to shoot well and really become one with the gun.
I cannot even remember when the last time I put any firearm pistol or revolver on a sandbag or rest. Usually I can tell right away if I am off and adjust accordingly. Most of the hand guns like Pocket guns to compacts all shoot with accuracy, just that they are all different in grip etc. You Must Spend time with the gun. And do this before you invest in different sights. What seems off at first, may very well shoot perfectly once the shooter adjust to the minute differences of a new gun.Many people do not realize it does not take much to change the poi in a firearm. DAO revolvers are a good example of this. I cannot tell you how bad I was when I first started shooting the LCR9mm. Terrible. But after thousands of rounds down range is a completely different story. And that gun shot low for the longest time. Not any more. No Low shooting, either the gun self corrected itself or I just learned how to shoot it.
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Carl, if a gun shoot low it shoots low. It is NOT always operator error and it's not always small guns, I've had to file the sights on 1911 guns. AND, my 3 snub nose(2") revoplvers shoot to the top of the front sight. (2 642s and a 2" Rossi). Hard for me to believe you haven't run into any that didn't shoot low. Also, they don't just shoot low for me but for others too.
Donald duck
New member
There are plenty of fixed sighted handguns that do not shoot point of aim for anyone. And I do mean anyone no matter if you are a new shooter or the best shooter on Earth.
stinkeypete
New member
Fixed sight guns may require minor modification to shoot to point of aim.
I consider removing 0.1 inch of front sight about as difficult as putting sheepskin seat covers on the drivers seat of your car. It’s something you do at home.
It will vary based on ammo choice. It’s far better to shoot a little low than a little high, filing metal ON to a front sight is a skill I have yet to master.
Don’t believe for a minute that fixed sight guns don’t shoot to point of aim. Poorly built ones don’t.
All three of my Ruger cowboy guns shot right where I pointed them. Two right out of the grey plastic box, and the Bearcat after a 2 week trip to Ruger, who tweaked a barrel rotation for me.
That said... there is a reason for adj. sights.
I consider removing 0.1 inch of front sight about as difficult as putting sheepskin seat covers on the drivers seat of your car. It’s something you do at home.
It will vary based on ammo choice. It’s far better to shoot a little low than a little high, filing metal ON to a front sight is a skill I have yet to master.
Don’t believe for a minute that fixed sight guns don’t shoot to point of aim. Poorly built ones don’t.
All three of my Ruger cowboy guns shot right where I pointed them. Two right out of the grey plastic box, and the Bearcat after a 2 week trip to Ruger, who tweaked a barrel rotation for me.
That said... there is a reason for adj. sights.
That's been my experience.Don’t believe for a minute that fixed sight guns don’t shoot to point of aim. Poorly built ones don’t.
All three of my Ruger cowboy guns shot right where I pointed them.
Although it seems somewhat contradictory, I have found that a fixed sighted gun is more likely to shoot close enough to point of aim out of the box to be satisfactory than an adjustable sighted gun is.
I think that the manufacturers of fixed sighted guns understand that because the sights aren't super-easy to adjust that they need to put in a bit of extra effort to get it right. But with adjustable sighted guns they just slap them on and leave them whererever they are set--they know that the end-user can easily deal with that and so they let them.
Interesting. I would guess that I'm talking about a sample of something like 100 guns over the years between guns I've owned and sold/traded and guns I still own.
In that time, I've had one fixed sighted gun that was so badly off that I had to put a different set of sights on it. That was a known issue that the manufacturer acknowledged.
I've had one .22LR revolver with fixed sights that needed a few inches of hold to get it on the bullseye.
My wife wanted a Bond Arms derringer, and it doesn't really shoot to point of aim.
My Kahr CW9 was maybe 3-4 inches off in windage at 25 yards, so I drifted it a little to get it shooting closer to point of aim.
The rest of my fixed sighted guns have been on, or at least on close enough that I left them alone.
In that time, I've had one fixed sighted gun that was so badly off that I had to put a different set of sights on it. That was a known issue that the manufacturer acknowledged.
I've had one .22LR revolver with fixed sights that needed a few inches of hold to get it on the bullseye.
My wife wanted a Bond Arms derringer, and it doesn't really shoot to point of aim.
My Kahr CW9 was maybe 3-4 inches off in windage at 25 yards, so I drifted it a little to get it shooting closer to point of aim.
The rest of my fixed sighted guns have been on, or at least on close enough that I left them alone.
I agree with that. Most of my fixed sighted guns hit pretty close to POA. If they're off they're usually low so you can file them down until you get them where you want them.That's been my experience.
Although it seems somewhat contradictory, I have found that a fixed sighted gun is more likely to shoot close enough to point of aim out of the box to be satisfactory than an adjustable sighted gun is.
I think that the manufacturers of fixed sighted guns understand that because the sights aren't super-easy to adjust that they need to put in a bit of extra effort to get it right. But with adjustable sighted guns they just slap them on and leave them whererever they are set--they know that the end-user can easily deal with that and so they let them.