S&W model 69

Here are some additional pictures that show the interchangeability of the X frame S&W "Tamer" grips with an N frame 629. Keep in mind these grips also fit the round butt K, L, and N frame as well as the X frame. That includes the 69 and the 66-8. Perhaps seeing the frames without the grips will provide some help....although their "feel" with each individual frame can be different based on weight, barrel length balance, hand size, etc....

Sevens.... Your clear description of the frames and their history was excellent!







 
K, L, N Frame Measurements

Here are some measurements for K, L, N frames.

For reference:

The M66-8 - the new one
The M19 is a 19-3 (pinned and recessed)
The M69 is the new L Frame, 5 shot .44 Mag
The 629 Mtn Gun is pre mim, pre lock, and has hammer mounted firing pin.
One of these days, I’ll measure the M60 – J Frame
I don’t have an X Frame

Frame window front to back:
M66 - 1.815”
M19 - 1.805”
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820“

Frame window top to bottom:
M66 - 1.475”
M19 - 1.475”
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“

Top strap:
M66 - 0.665”
M19 - 0.655”
629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“

Cylinder Diameter:
M66 - (six shot) - 1.450”
M19 - (six shot) - 1.450”
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Diameter (six shot): 1.70”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Diameter (five shot): 1.56”

Cylinder Length:
M66 - 1.670”
M19 - 1.675” (Recessed charge holes)
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Length: 1.705”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Length: 1.670”


Note, all of my K, L, N Frame round butt’s have the Hogue 500 grips on them.

Paul
 
WOW! Many thanks for taking the time and effort to provide those detailed measurements ... very interesting and very useful!

Paul105 said:
[...]
Here are some measurements for K, L, N frames.
[...]

Frame window front to back:
M66 - 1.815”
M19 - 1.805”
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820"

Cylinder Length:
M66 - 1.670”
M19 - 1.675” (Recessed charge holes)
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Length: 1.705”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Length: 1.670”
Click to expand...

I was surprised that the frame "window" width was that different for the L-Frame compared to the N-Frame, since the cartridges are the same length. The N-Frame cylinder has more space in front of the bullets, before the bullets leave the cylinder (conformed by the cylinder length measurements). I HAD noticed that the bullets in my M69 DO come fairly close to the end of the cylinder, but I didn't have an N-Frame around to compare it with. The L-Frame and K-Frames are not much different, as far as the extra length of the cylinder in front of the bullet.

Frame window top to bottom:
M66 - 1.475”
M19 - 1.475”
629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“

Cylinder Diameter:
M66 - (six shot) - 1.450”
M19 - (six shot) - 1.450”
629 Mtn Gun Cylinder Diameter (six shot): 1.70”
M69 L Frame Cylinder Diameter (five shot): 1.56”
Click to expand...

I would have guessed that the difference in the cylinder diameter between a 5-shot .44mag and a 6-shot .44mag would be greater than that. And I would have guessed that 6 shots of .357 would be closer in diameter to 5-shots of .44mag than it is ... maybe shouldn't be surprising, .44mag cartridges ARE really wide compared to a .357.

Top strap:
M66 - 0.665”
M19 - 0.655”
629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“
Click to expand...

About the same, as far as "beefiness" of the frame.

Thanks again for that data ... I'm saving THAT!
 
Rumor has it, there's a Mod. 69 on it's way from the distributor.... hoping it's got my name on it. Hopefully later this week or early next!
 
It showed up last night

Well it showed up last night and this is the letter that I just wrote to S&W.

Smith and Wesson
I ordered and received last night a new M69 with the markings I have added below including the markings on the blue box.
A little story about myself, I am a collector of N frame S&W’s, my prime collection are of older Model 24’s and 29. These I have multiple of including 2 Lew Horton 24’s. 25’s 27’s and a 1955 Target in 44 special. I know a quality gun when I handle one.
This 69 is not one of them. The following are my concerns.
1. The grips are a poor fit along the back of the grip. They don’t align, and to me they seem to be manufactured poorly where the back sides go together are very thin. When griping the gun I can feel the two edges roll under my palm. This gives a very poor feel.
2. Single action is very nice but too heavy. I can live with it but I would guess 5 lb. But the smoothness is inconstant. Sometimes you can feel a little creep sometimes not.
3. Here is the worse problem. This is by far the worse double action I have ever handled. The first quarter of the pull feels like dragging bricks through gravel and I was shocked at the weight. I have no scales but I have no guns that come close. This is very poor trigger for a S&W.
4. The cylinder release is a joke. Two bricks sliding together.
5. This one surprised me coming from S&W. I know the guns have to be fired so you can retain a fired case but can’t you at least clean the gun. Only two cylinders have been fired from the look of the front of the cylinder with one at 12 and the other two chambers around. The ring I don’t mind but the barrel has so much copper fowling that I was just simply surprised. You must be using very cheap jacketed bullets or something.
6. The barrel shroud. There is a flat spot that runs along the left side of the shroud at 7 o’clock. Yes a flat spot. There are also discolorations on the side. A scratch at the shroud to frame aria and the barrel crown has a small scratch that runs to the edge of the rifling. This is small but it’s also the worse location for a nick or scratch.
7. One final thing. When I got home with it I dry fired it. This is where I became very unhappy with the double action. In less than 20 dry firings the cylinder has a ring.
When I first heard of the 69 I went nuts. I have been looking for a 696 for several years and just can’t find a decent one that hasn’t been beat up. When the 69 came out I waited for this long so that I wouldn’t get the first off the production line. I will probably never shoot magnums in it, the Redhawk and 29's are for that.
I am not very happy with this gun. I know that its impossible to get the quality of hand built guns from the 30's 40's and 50's, that is a sad loss for us all
I hope you can do something to get my confidence in your great company again. I hope you will be willing to look at the gun and do something about the quality or lack thereof.
Thank you.
 
I just don't understand how people take delivery of a new gun - and then are surprised when they get it home?

Didn't you even look at it before paying for it? If it was prepaid and your dealer won't allow returns - you need a different dealer.

If the gun had the physical defects you describe - I sure wouldn't have accepted delivery.

All I can say is I was very pleased with the workmanship, fit and finish of my gun - before - I brought it home.

Good luck - let us know what S&W says.
 
I just don't understand how people take delivery of a new gun - and then are surprised when they get it home?
You did read that I ordered it?
The shop owner is a good friend who went out of his way to get the order filled in less than a couple of weeks.
I opened the shipping box in his store like I do every time I buy or order a gun from him. Together we found the issues all but the jacket fowling due to the less than adequate light in his store. I showed him some of the issues and I said that I would contact S&W first and if I didn't get any help from them I would bring it back. He was ok with that.
Just a couple of minutes ago I got 4 e mails from S&W one from the manager of customer service apologizing for the issues. And his phone number if things don't get fixed to my satisfaction.
Another one is a free shipping label so it’s going back.
I'm working on some photos to send them to him and I will post them here.
I'm glad you got a good one. Having seen, handled and owned a lot of S&W's this is by far the worst one I have ever seen. I don't think I have handed a Taurus as bad as this. I do wish I had a trigger pull scale so that I could tell you the weight but if its not in the 20 pound plus class I'm an anti-gunner!
 
photos

The first one is the back of the grip. You can’t make your own mind up on the quality.
The other photo is Ring on the cylinder after only 10 dry firings.
Also note that the side plate which has a gap near the rear sight where line reaches the cylinder cover it looks like it was forced inward and the metal at the point of the frame and plate have been compressed and flowed upward slightly.
Also along the curve there is a bright spot. This is a deep dent.
 
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Now for some photos.
Flat spot.
It’s hard to see and much harder to photograph but if you look at the two black lines I have added you can see what might look like a shadow,,, it’s not. It’s actually a flat spot on the barrel shroud.
The second one is the copper fowling.
 
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This is the barrel crown. I assure you that some of the scratches are much deeper than they look in the two photos.
 
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I found another item (Not bad) on the gun which I was surprised to find. Looking at the top strap of the frame from underneath the gun is tapped for a scope mount. There are a total of 3 holes. I was a little surprised at that addition to a frame that is already being stressed.
 
I may be dense (according to wife no "maybe"), but I don't see how the M69 frame is any more stressed than the M629 Mtn Gun. Granted, the longer/heavier and/or w/underlug barreled 629s will moderate recoil stress but the dimensions are within .01" (except frame window). I would think the smaller frame window of the M69 would incr strength (but I'm not an engineer). All new 629s have the pre drilled scope mounting holes.

Here are some measurements for comparison.

629 Mtn Gun Frame Window - Height: 1.735“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Height: 1.600“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Window – Width: 1.880“
M69 L Frame - Frame Window Width: 1.820“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Width: .665“
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Width: .665“

629 Mtn Gun Frame Top Strap – Height: .220“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)
M69 L Frame - Frame Top Strap Height: .210“ to top of frame (includes sight mortiss)

Here's a 4x Leup on M69. I mounted the scope for load testing, but it's a handy, reasonable weight, accurate rig (although the 2x would be more practical).

P4110024_zpsb5c995eb.jpg


Hope you get your gun fixed to your satisfaction and enjoy it as much as I do mine.

Paul
 
I won't buy a new S&W until Clint Eastwood features it in a movie. Remember the 8 shot 357 he used in Sudden Impact?
 
but I don't see how the M69 frame is any more stressed than the M629 Mtn Gun.
I guess I worded that wrong. I haven’t measured the difference between the 69 and my 629 but I thought there was more than what you showed.
Thanks for the numbers to compare.
What I meant was I was surprised that they spent the time and money to drill and tap.
Having given it a long think, there might be a Trijicon red dot setting in the safe with its name (69) on it
 
So my Model 69 has arrived (sorry, no photos yet) and while i haven't had the opportunity to fire it, i'm very happy at this point.

Fit and finish looks to be excellent, while i think this revolver would look fantastic blued, i'm not opposed to the beaded finish. As mentioned by Oz, drilled and tapped for a scope, although i don't think i'll be adding one any time soon.

Grips are, well... rubber grips... these seem fine, however, I may snag some X-frame grips as suggested by some, for comparison, and at some point may want to dress it up with wood stocks. Although that might be a bit more punishing, i'd like to see it wearing wood at some point.

I must say, this 69 locks up rock solid. With no play at all rotational or fore/aft. The ball detente is doing its' job also, according to what I've read in prior posts and how SW intended it to fit.

DA Trigger is a tad heavy in double action, as mentioned in other reviews, but not horribly so and VERY smooth. I would expect that to lighten up with some dry firing / range time and working itself.

SA, trigger pull is very, VERY nice, and breaks very cleanly. I don't have a scale, and won't guess at the weight, but out of the box is really quite good!!

So far, i'm happy. Hoping to run some Specials and Magnums through it sometime this weekend.
 
Glad to see you got a nice one. Would you do me a favor?
Turn the gun upside down and look at the barrel shroud.
Does yours have any flat spots like I showed in the photos I attached?
I agree with you about the very good lockup. Double action smooth, I must have gotten one built on a Friday and yours is a Tuesday.:(
I like the grips if they fit worth a crap. But I want wood on mine also. I’m thinking a set of Jerry Miculik grips on it. I have a set on a S&W 21 that I really like.

http://www.miculek.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2
 
Oz,
I meant to mention that.... I took a close look at the shroud, as the flat spot was pretty evident in your photo... All looks good. No flat spots, nice transition and contour going into the under lug..

On a bright note, the shroud should be pretty easily replaced for you. (Shouldn't have had to go back in the first place, but I'll bet S&W makes it right for you.)

Let us know how it goes.

Good luck, hope you get it returned quickly, and 100%
 
Yesterday I sent a e mail asking how long.
Answer
It would be 4 to 5 weeks.
Click to expand...
I missed a call today from one of there gun smiths asking in his own words
Why was the gun sent back?
Click to expand...
I will try to call him back in the morning since its too late this evening.
Wonder if this will turn out to be fun.:mad:
 
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