S&W Model 10's and a comment

Um. What adjustment screw behind the trigger?

I wish my M&P had the optional adjustment screw behind the trigger! We adjusted his trigger about 1/3 turn and the trigger became a thing of beauty1 Lighter, Crisper, andit seemes to have a faster lock time too! Howeber it adjusts the linkages, it sure works!
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The only screw I can think of was the adjustable trigger stop. That requires removing the sideplate.

Unless you mean the mainspring strain screw. In that case, yours has one too.
 
The pressure limits I noted were from SAAMI. The cartridge pressures I listed came from the manufacturers. Winchester, Remington and Federal make this info available if you ask. I asked. I assumed it would be known this came from the ammo makers but that was a bad assumption on my part.
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Thanks for the clarification.
 
"Mr. Irwin is it possible that your friends Victory revolver had been chambered for the 38 S&W round, and later converted to chamber 38 special ammo?"

Nope.

US Navy marked Victory Model.
 
BTW- Saw a Gunbroker auction for a S&W 357 Magnum. The seller noted the gun would also handle 38 Special +P. He felt the need to reassure bidders this 357 Magnum could handle 38 +P. There you go. The myth is alive and well.
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Was at the LGS/Range a few weeks back, and a relatively newish shooter was showing me his LCR and telling me that it would also shoot +P and it was almost the same as a .357 Magnum in power :rolleyes:



The myth is indeed alive and well.
 
Was at the LGS/Range a few weeks back, and a relatively newish shooter was showing me his LCR and telling me that it would also shoot +P and it was almost the same as a .357 Magnum in power
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To be fair, the longer cartridge does lose a lot of its advantage when shot from a snubby barrel.
 
Was at the LGS/Range a few weeks back, and a relatively newish shooter was showing me his LCR and telling me that it would also shoot +P and it was almost the same as a .357 Magnum in power



The myth is indeed alive and well.
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Here's some figures from the Buffalo Bore site for their heavy (158 grain) .38spl +P.

1255 fps -- Ruger GP 100, 6 inch barrel, 357 mag.
•1186 fps -- S&W Combat Masterpiece 6 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1958)
•1146 fps -- S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch barrel, 357 mag.
•1167 fps -- S&W Mod. 15, 4 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1968)
•1112 fps -- Ruger SP 101, 3 inch barrel, 38 SPL
•1043 fps -- S&W Mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel, 357 mag.
• 989 fps -- S&W Mod 340PD, 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 357 mag.
•1027 fps -- S&W Mod 642 (pre dash), 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 38 SPL

I'm not seeing much of a myth in those figures.
BB as a topic has come up pretty often.

Quite a few people have verified the velocities they list on their site.
The only real issue is how BB can hit those figures with +P loads.
 
I can only guess that BB loads right up to the SAAMI max, 21,500 PSI. The others stay well below it on advice of counsel.
 
Yeah, can you post a link to the SAAMI limits you're talking about? Like I said, I couldn't find them in PSI. Thanks.
 
SAAMI used to use psi but it looks like that changed in 2013. The psi was maximum peak pressure. I'm guessing that Buffalo Bore achieves their results due to a combination of things. First, they use specific powders (blends?) for specific jobs and match primers accordingly. This would allow them to achieve maximum peak pressure for a longer period of time which translates to a higher velocity.
 
I just can't find numbers that look like the ones SaxonPig has posted for .38 Special. I'd like to read them myself. Every other reference has lower numbers for .38.
 
SAAMI maximum pressures for a 38 special 21,500 PSI. SAAMI maximum pressure for 38 Special +P ammo 18,500 PSI. 18,500 PSI/21,500PSI = .8604 or 8.64% margin of safety.
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Sixth grade Math Fail.

18,500 is 86% of 21,500...that means that the former is 86% of the latter.

That means a 14% margin of safety (100% - 86 + 14%)

I guess it is no surprise we are $17 Trillion in debt, and very few people express any concern about it...because they have no understanding of it.
 
I can only guess that BB loads right up to the SAAMI max, 21,500 PSI. The others stay well below it on advice of counsel.
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I have no idea how BB gets what it does.

Truth be told, I'm not one to defend the use of +P since - IMHO - It's use is more of a marketing tool and not indicative of any performance enhancements.
It's vastly overused.

The old Nyclad from fifteen years ago was a perfect example.
The difference between the +P offering and the standard offering was all of 50 fps.

However - that doesn't mean that all +P offerings are not what they should be.
The BB listed above proves the new shooter knew what he was talking about.
The figures for the short barreled guns (like his LCR) really are close to a .357 magnum of the same weight fired from a short barrel.

If I had a short barreled .38 spl or .357mag, I'd give real serious thought to using that load.
 
S&W Model 10's

The k-frame is my favorite revolver. I have them in 38spl, 357mag and 22lr. 3 inch, 4 inch, and 5 inch barrels. They're all a joy to shoot.
 
I love these "should I shoot +P in my...." discussions. Almost as good as "what's the best oil to use in my motorcycle?"

For the record, several years ago I bought a huge amount of .38 Special +P at a steal. Therefore, it's just about all that I shoot in my Model 10 and my Model 36 S&W's. I even run them through my old Charter Arms Undercover. Guess what? No problems.

You can shoot what you want in your gun and I'll shoot what I want in mine. Just don't tell me that I'm doing it wrong and I'll do the same for you.
 
Here's some figures from the Buffalo Bore site for their heavy (158 grain) .38spl +P.

1255 fps -- Ruger GP 100, 6 inch barrel, 357 mag.
•1186 fps -- S&W Combat Masterpiece 6 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1958)
•1146 fps -- S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch barrel, 357 mag.
•1167 fps -- S&W Mod. 15, 4 inch barrel, 38 SPL (circa 1968)
•1112 fps -- Ruger SP 101, 3 inch barrel, 38 SPL
•1043 fps -- S&W Mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel, 357 mag.
• 989 fps -- S&W Mod 340PD, 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 357 mag.
•1027 fps -- S&W Mod 642 (pre dash), 1 & 7/8 inch barrel, 38 SPL

I'm not seeing much of a myth in those figures.
BB as a topic has come up pretty often.

Quite a few people have verified the velocities they list on their site.
The only real issue is how BB can hit those figures with +P loads.
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So let's compare apples to apples. Here's the listings of the BB in .357 Magnum loads. Take a look at the 158gr listings.

I'm seeing around 300 fps difference.

That's substantial.

]1. 3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

3. 5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps]
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps

4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps



Those +P loads from BB you listed look to be in the neighborhood of where the old 38/44 loads were. (which Colt literature of the day said was fine for there 38 Specials)


myth busted :)

The BB listed above proves the new shooter knew what he was talking about.
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not really..It proves someone's marketing worked.
 
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Let's also not discount the fact that the BB 38 +P loads are lead (unusual for modern defensive ammo) which due to less friction, will chrono faster than jacketed.
 
So let's compare apples to apples. Here's the listings of the BB in .357 Magnum loads. Take a look at the 158gr listings.
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No - let's not...

You can't change the rules just to suit what your saying.


Here's what you said:

"Was at the LGS/Range a few weeks back, and a relatively newish shooter was showing me his LCR and telling me that it would also shoot +P and it was almost the same as a .357 Magnum in power"

Nowhere were juiced .357mag loads mentioned - just .357mag loads, which would encompass all .357 mag loads.
Just because you can find one or two or even twenty that trounce a +P means nothing.

All it takes is one .38spl +P load that trounces or comes close to a .357 mag load to make what the new guy said correct.

The BB loads do just that.
That +P load equals or exceeds some .357mag loads in a short barrel.

There's no myth about that in the least.

BTW - I'm not going to discuss this any further.
Why?
I'm not a fan of +P.
I believe that the term is overused and for the most part, +P ammunition isn't worth a premium.


HOWEVER - that doesn't change the fact that there are legitimate offerings out there.
The Bufflao Bore load is one.
Another is the good old FBI load - a LSWCHP +P.

Let's also not discount the fact that the BB 38 +P loads are lead (unusual for modern defensive ammo) which due to less friction, will chrono faster than jacketed.
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Now your just reaching.
That has nothing to do with anything.
Neither is it unusual for specialty loads to use lead instead of jacketed.
 
Sgt127
Some guns have a screw just behind the trigger. the Rangemaster showed it to us on my Brother-in-Laws gun, mine dosen't have it.
All we did was give it maybe 1/4 to 1/3 turn and the trigger got way better1 Broke cleaner too1
I am no expert so I dunno exactly what it's called, but if your gun has it, then you can adjust yours also.ZVP
 
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