S&W internal lock beef?

D

DasBoot

Moderator
I bought a S&W 686+ about 5 months ago.
Absolutely LOVE the gun!
Feel, look, accuracy....this gun has it all!
But what is this griping I read so often about the internal lock?
Like this makes it an inferior gun compared to the those w/o the lock.
What possible difference can it make if it does or does not have one.
Or is it just some petty political sniping because the company made a minor concession in order to get on with its business.
What gives?:confused:
 
It's something else to potentially go wrong, which never needed to be in there in the first place. I won't buy one myself, but that's just me. I don't knock anybody who does buy them.
 
There are a couple of threads in the "Lounge" section of the S&W Forum that you'll want to visit. One is the "Integral Lock Mosh Pit" and the other is the one that documents failures of the lock.

I had an idiot lock self-activate on my 60-15 after I oafishly knocked it off a counter onto a hardwood floor. Since that sort of roughhousing might well happen in a self-defense situation, I distrusted the gun thereafter and traded it away.
 
Not only is it something else to go wrong it is an insult to my intelligence to install it in the gun. S&W can pack sand until they see fit to remove the locks.
 
S&W is having problems with the internal locks self activating ,mostly in the light weight snubbies. An Instructor at a snubby class at the S&W Facility stated same. I will not purchase S&W's with the lock , there's so many nice ones out there that don't have it and cost less. Ask yourself this, If the lock is so good and is so reliable ,then how come S&W is selling the new M&P to police departments without an Internal lock? Next question, do you know a police officer or department that would purchase a weapon with an internal lock? I even removed the trigger overtravel stop from my m 19 ,because our armorer said it could come loose and tie up the gun. Final thought , what do you think a prosecuter would do to someone who removed a "safety device" from a handgun ,that they then killed someone in self defense with? Regards 18DAI.
 
Thanks for the info.
I don't expect I'll ever use the lock anyway.
Are there any instances of it locking up in a 686+?
 
Has it ever happend with N frames? I've been eyeing a 629 at the gun store

for use as a camp, hike, hunting back up, all around outdoor gun. Hate for it

to lock up when facing a bear.
 
I even removed the trigger overtravel stop from my m 19 ,because our armorer said it could come loose and tie up the gun.
Click to expand...
Yep - - they sure can!

I had exactly that happen to an older Model 19 I have.
Tied it up like right now, and it stayed that way until I could remove the sideplate and fix it.
 
Das Boote & Steve M - Be advised that I have no Personal Knowledge of which guns are most at risk. The Information I obtained is from the S&W forum. Go to CCW section and read the thread on the Snubby class at the S&W training academy. Also check out the thread in the lounge on Internal locks ,the guy's who have had them tie up their guns post there. My understanding is with light weight, big bore pistols, there are real problems. The titanium snubby's in 357 are the ones most mentioned. Regards 18DAI.
 
Not only is it something else to go wrong it is an insult to my intelligence to install it in the gun. S&W can pack sand until they see fit to remove the locks.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it's going to get harder and harder as companies start adding those locks. Right now, it's Ruger (some models), S&W, Taurus, and HK (one model?). I'm sure others have them or are working on them.

I'm not bothered by well designed locks such as the one Taurus uses on their revolvers. Unfortunately for them, the S&W lock isn't well designed IMO.

Chris
 
I personally can't find a Smith without a lock so I bought my used and new models with the lock. Of all the guns I have:

36LS
60 2"
686+ 4"
686+ 2"

None have locked up when using. I don't use the lock and it's never engaged. I'd feel better to have a pre lock but again, can't find one and I've looked for years. When I do see them online, I can never afford them so I bought the SP101 DAO and the GP100.
 
I have used Smith&Wessons for many years and have several. Thwy are my favorite revolvers, But I will NEVER buy another S&W as long as they continue to use that stupid, politically inspired lock.
 
S&W could've made the lock a little less hideous by just hiding it a bit better.

Taurus is in the hammer, Springfield in the mainspring housing, Ruger has theirs under the stocks... But S&W? Right there for God and everyone to see on the side of the frame.

I wouldn't mind a discreet lock in a non-carry gun, but that black abyss on the side of the revolver really takes away from the looks and I wouldn't choose a S&W for carry with a lock.

S&W dropped 1100 new model 37 airweights into the market a month ago. All new, no MIM, and no lock. I'd look for one, but I've got a lockfree J frame.
 
Duh ---
That's the reason I like the wheel gun.
No safeties, locks or any other mechanical things to think about in a life or death situation.
 
Money more than politics probably caused them to cave in on locks

Defending yourself or your company against the full power and deep pockets of a politically aroused prosecutor causes an outflow of money for defense lawyers like the Mississippi river at full flood stage. I imagine that S&W could have shrugged off the nasty remarks but, facing the continuing prospect of an army of eager lawyers to pay, I'm sure they saw how it was decimating their bottom line and decided to live to fight another day. Incidentally, I'd also like to know what S&W pays annually for liability insurance.
 
I've owned four S&W revolvers. Two with the lock Two without. The pre-lock revolvers triggers are SO much better. Sold both with the lock because they just didn't compare with my old pre model 12 M&P Airweight. Never could get used to the overly mechanical feel of the new triggers. The fact that the locks have malfunctioned in some cases, is really enough reason on it's own not to carry one. For shooting at the range, fine. For protecting my life, no way. As a Ma. resident, getting any used handgun at a fair price is a difficult task, as no used handguns that were not previously in state can be purchased here. (Exeption being C&R stuff if you have the Licence) Finding any blue pre lock Smith at a fair price is a chore, but worth it IMO.

Keepers,
1956 pre model 12 2"

1982 ish Model 19-5 2 1/2"
 
Here's my beef. I don't like the thought of catering to politicians anymore than anyone else but I understand the liability concerns. I don't know how commonly the lock malfunction but every new development usually has bugs to work out (also, I have the feeling that the failures aren't as common as some would have me to believe). My biggest gripe is that they're so darned ugly! At least the other manufacturers have the sense to put it in a less conspicuous place (like Taurus putting it on the hammer). But that silly triangular cylinder release along with that ugly zit on the sideplate ruin the looks of an otherwise fine looking gun.
 
"that black abyss on the side of the revolver really takes away from the looks".
"My biggest gripe is that they're so darned ugly!
"Right there for God and everyone to see on the side of the frame."
"But I will NEVER buy another S&W as long as they continue to use that stupid, politically inspired lock."
Blah, Blah, Blah!!!
You know, at first I thought, "My God!What a prissy little bunch of prigs we have here!!!!:D
Then I got to thinking, I'm a Fender guitar afficianado, and the same could be said of me for my distaste of the enlarged headstock and logos on '65 thru '80 Telecasters and Strats.
S&W, like Fender, is an American institution and has created some of the most important handguns the world has ever seen.
I love my 686+ with or without the lock.
Granted, it is a visual distraction to some degree, but I need my guns to shoot well, not necessarilly look perfect.
And I couldn't care less about the politics involved.
If a little hole on the frame is all I need to put up with in order for S&W to continue putting out outstanding firearms, so be it.
To each his own!;)
 
"that black abyss on the side of the revolver really takes away from the looks".
"My biggest gripe is that they're so darned ugly!
"Right there for God and everyone to see on the side of the frame."
"But I will NEVER buy another S&W as long as they continue to use that stupid, politically inspired lock."
Blah, Blah, Blah!!!
You know, at first I thought, "My God!What a prissy little bunch of prigs we have here!!!!:D
Then I got to thinking, I'm a Fender guitar afficionado, and the same could be said of me for my distaste of the enlarged headstock and logos on '65 thru '80 Telecasters and Strats.
S&W, like Fender, is an American institution and has created some of the most important handguns the world has ever seen.
I love my 686+ with or without the lock.
Granted, it is a visual distraction to some degree, but I need my guns to shoot well, not necessarilly look perfect.
And I couldn't care less about the politics involved.
If a little hole on the frame is all I need to put up with in order for S&W to continue putting out outstanding firearms, so be it.
To each his own!;)
 
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