S&W 945

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Thanks for all your help, guys. I'll check out that place in Poughkeepsie. I'm glad I can come here and drop a vague request and get such helpful and precise responses. I've never regretted signing onto The Firing Line.

However, it DOES bother me that I can't TYPE "Smith & Wesson" without a handful of you guys jumping down my throat. I understand the issue, and have a copy of "The Agreement" hanging on my wall for quick reference. However, posts about the constitution, S&W's evil ownership, and what a terrible person I must be to display interest in owning a S&W firearm are out of place here. Thanks to those who helped me, and to those who cluttered my thread with propagandistic claptrap, shame on you.

PaladinVC
 
If this is not the place than where would you propose?
Propaganda claptrap? Funny, that is not the way I view the RKBA.
If you really do have a copy of the agreement on the wall and are still purchasing new Smiths than you are the one whom should be ashamed.
 
If S&W is adopting a "sterilized" version of the agreement, then why haven't they prouidly proclaimed as much? Why don't they hold a press conference and publically say "Hey, ya know that stupid document we signed? We regret doing so, and to make our point we are openly thumbing our nose at the socialists that strongarmed us by being completely out of compliance with it." If they are truly ignoring an agreement they were originally so happy to make, there is no reason they shouldn't or couldn't let the world know. If they did, I probably would go buy a new S&W to show my support.
 
I must say this again, WELL PUT, GUNSLINGER! The He** with Slick & Willy! $&$ the only 1911 allowed in MA? Gee, I wonder if "the agreement" has anything to do with this? What will it take to get some of the gun owners of America to wake up? SamC
 
You need to learn to respect the fact that when people post about S&W, those who read this thread may not all be aware of the full circumstances of the case, or may not know why people feel as strongly as they do. S&W and Ruger have both sold us out in quite extreme ways, and it's probably only because the internet didn't exist at the time Ruger crippled our mag capacity by WRITING the legislation personally that we haven't boycotted them more fully.
 
Forgive me.... for I had Sinful Thoughts

S&W may have caved into political pressure but I went to their website and took a look at their "Custom" Performance Center guns. All I can say is Whoa! They seem to be putting out some of the best automatics and revolvers in their history. I was never keen about their standard autos but the Performance Center pistols (esp. the 945!) gave me a whole new perspective about them. S&W revolvers have always been good and their Performance Center versions seem to be even better. And their re-introduced Model 3 Schofield?......Well if I had the cash I wouldn't know whether I would choose a Colt SAA or the Schofield. They seemed to have done a lot of homework when I wasn't looking. Them guns really took me by surprise.


To all TFL'ers,

Forgive me but they all looked so pretty on my computer screen. :confused: I'll look but I won't touch. :(


*Its all semantics anyways, I don't think Performance Center Guns are available in CA. I couldn't give into temptation if I wanted to.
 
No, Rock, the agreement that S&W is PUBLICIZING on their web site (or at least the one that they were publicizing at one time) was a heavily edited version.

IOW, SPIN, S&W style, as in "Hey, see, this isn't that bad!"

Just don't read the fine print that they left out.
 
Mike, what did Smith and Wesson omit from the version they posted on their website? That's the version I'm looking at, and I am unaware of any changes that they made from the original agreement, with the exception of the comments, which are in bold, making them easy to discern from the rest of the text, and are mostly "Smith & Wesson already complies with this regulation" or "This regulation is already in effect". I'd be interested in seeing a copy of the document that hasn't had any of the data removed. Where can I find the complete agreement text? Is it legal for them to have posted a version of the agreement that has had articles deleted?
 
I'm getting real tired of this S&W bashing. Some guy asks a simple question about the S&W 945 (a better gun than a lot of the overpriced 1911s now on the market) and he gets a political tirade. This S&W stuff is becoming the gun crowds equivalent of the liberal politically correct culture. (There are some topics you just can't talk about.) Why can't you guys just let it rest? In most gunshops I've been to, S&W guns are sold in the same way as other guns. From what I can see, the agreement isn't being implemented on any level.

I've never shot a 945, but I've handled the full-length and commander versions. It's a beautifully finished and innovative gun. I've never read a post by an 945 owner that didn't love this gun in terms of its extreme accuracy and reliability. Look at the features--a linkless barrel, Briley spherical bushing, lower bore axis, ambi safety, REAL U.S.-made Bo-Mar sights (not the cheap foreign knockoffs used by Baer and Kimber), checkered frontstrap, wood grips, etc. For around $1,400 this gun is a good price compared to a Wilson that uses a Kimber slide and frame and costs close to $600 more.
 
Why can't you guys just let it rest?

Because we care too deeply about our rights.....and yours.
BTW, sounds to me like you are hanging out around the wrong gun shops.;)
I'm getting real tired of people either boasting about their new Smith and/or contemplating their next Smith purchase. It seems that there will always be things in our lives that we are real tired of. Such is life.

PaladinVC, I did not realize the only copy of the agreement you had read was the "cleaned up" version that Smith post on their site. Due to that I withdraw my remark suggesting that you be ashamed for considering a Smith & Wesson purchase even knowing the agreement.
I will attempt to get a full, uncensored, copy of the agreement and post it.
 
With all due respect there is no agreement. As was previously stated you can go in a gun store and buy a Smith&Wesson just the same as you can any other gun. Who cares what the agreement says. Until it is enforced there is no agreement. But you say there is an agreement with the city of Boston. I say who cares other than I may decide to go the the root of the problem and blame the idiots in Boston. Let them live with it.

Sometimes in business you have to make deals with the devil. As an owner of a business there have been a number of times where you settle a frivolous lawsuit due to the cost of going to court. Do you spend $20,000 defending a frivolous lawsuit of do you settle by throwing some greedy lawyer a $1000 bone. No it's not right to have to pay blackmail to lawyers but do you stay in business by paying blackmail or do you let legal fees bankrupt you. What about your employees that will loose their jobs. Contrary to what many people think the majority of business owners do care about the welfare of their employees and their families. Been there and done that. All firearms companies have a rough road ahead.
 
M16, you have became an enigma with me in this conversation. I cannot figure out if you can either not comprehend this or you simply do not want to.
If you will take the time to read the agreement you will see that once six manufactures agree to this it will become written in stone.
Further more the very reason that at least five others and for that matter all of the manufactures have not jumped on the agreement bandwagon is the fact that they have seen what gun owners, united, have been able to do as a collective against S&W and have not followed suit.

I honestly believe what you and I are experiencing here is a generation gap and subsequent lack of communication. You have never experienced true RKBA freedoms and do not fully realize the impact of this agreement if it were instituted industry wide. For that reason I can see nothing further to be gained by me nor any other member in attempting to educate you in this matter. Perhaps once you have gotten older you will understand what I and others are trying to tell you.
That is not to say that I will refrain from attempting to educate others in the Smith matter. Simply that I have decided, much as it pains me, that in your case it is hopeless.
I wish you well in all of your future endeavors.

Bill
 
HowardK

It's a beautifully finished and innovative gun. I've never read a post by an 945 owner that didn't love this gun in terms of its extreme accuracy and reliability. Look at the features--a linkless barrel, Briley spherical bushing, lower bore axis, ambi safety, REAL U.S.-made Bo-Mar sights (not the cheap foreign knockoffs used by Baer and Kimber), checkered frontstrap, wood grips, etc. For around $1,400 this gun is a good price compared to a Wilson that uses a Kimber slide and frame and costs close to $600 more.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with it. Very few people, if any, would argue that S&W does not put out a quality product. Some make like their autos, more will like their revolvers, most will appreciate the Performance Center guns.

But who cares? I mean, does it make any difference whether or not it is S&W, Colt, Ruger, Lorcin, Jennings, Taurus, or any other firearm manufacturer? It shouldn't, because a percentage of your firearms dollar is required to be spent on the articles of the agreement.

To say "well, I don't agree but that new XYZ model is just everything I ever wanted, & I just gotta have it no matter what" is an arrogant, selfish violation of your - & my - rights. It says you'll barter away your RKBA for the "right" product.
 
Well...

That isn't necessarily true. Buying a used S&W does nothing to help out the company, other than indicating that they still make good guns. From what I've read, buying a used 945 indicates that you have good taste.
 
Well Gunslinger you're not the first one to consider me hopeless. I guess the main point of disagreement is whether Smith&Wesson should be put out of business. I did boycott them for several months waiting for the so called agreement to go into effect. But it never happened. I believe it was the right thing to do to show them the error of their ways. And I guess my rather large collection would increase in value a great deal if they went out of business. My feeling is that the anti-gun people will have won a great victory if we boycott them to death. Who would take their place? Ruger (high capacity magazine traitor) Taurus (hammer lock traitor) Colt (smart gun technology inovator and no sales to civilians traitor.) Bottom line is I could probably come up with a reason to boycott any company I wanted to. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I do as always enjoy the discourse and wish you well in the pursuit of your endeavor. I thing we have the same destination but are taking different roads to get there.

On another subject I don't understand how buying used does not put a profit into the hands of the so called enemy. Let's say that I sell you a used Smith&Wesson or other brand so I can use that money to upgrade to a Performance Center model. A true freedom fighter would divest themselves of all Smith&Wessons and require an agreement before purchasing a used gun of any brand that the funds will not be used to buy a new Smith&Wesson. Opps there we go again with that "agreement thing."
 
Wait a second, Kevinch!

After you quoted HowardK's highly informative and helpful post, you said,

Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

If you'll read the initial post on this thread, you'll find that this has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with it! That is exactly the information I was looking for when I started this thread.

HowardK, thank you for your advice. Kevinch, try to stay on topic. I'm embarrassed that it took me this long to realize how far from the purpose of this thread we have strayed.
 
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