S&W .500 350 Gr Bullet Vs. Bears And Grizzly Bears?

I believe that the model 625 is chambered for .45 ACP.
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And if you go that route you will find .45 Supers work perfect out of it.

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The 3 inch 625 at the bottom of the photo is my .45 ACP and the one above is a 629-3 Mountain gun of mine (but as posted above, I normally use a standard 4 inch 629.)

But I still say a 12 gauge is better. Maybe a 18 inch barrel double if you want as compact a gun as possible.

Deaf
 
Have to love bear threads.

Whatever gun you are considering:
1) Will you ALWAYS have it with you? If it is not readily accessible it is useless. I've seen many guys show up to elk camp with huge revolvers...which never leave the truck after the first day in the mountains.
2) Can you shoot it rapidly and accurately 1-handed? I'm not interested in moderately-fired, double-handed groups at the range.

I've not often seen people convince me on these two points with the >.44Mag chamberings. You can put a nice .480 Ruger hardcast through the lungs and I"m sure the bear will expire shortly after he is done chewing on your skull.

The goal is to hit the CNS and any hardcast capable of acheiving this is acceptable...and if it can do it with easier-to-control recoil that allows more shots-on-goal, all the better.

In grizz country I carry heavy loaded .41 and .44 Mags. I have no desire for anything more. Too heavy (I may not have it as quickly accessible) and too much recoil (too few realistic shots on goal).
 
@Spaniel. I think you hit the nail on the head...or the bear on the head take your pick. I agree I don't want anymore recoil than a .44 magnum. The .500's while nice revolvers seem too ridiculous too me.

I want something practical and a .44 magnum with good hard cast bullets seems logical. Size is good to a point but this country loves to push the extremes of things to the point of impracticality and extremes.

This sort of reminds me of shaving. First they had one blade, and then double blades. The double blades might be a little better for shaving and MAYBE MAYBE 3 blades. Then they got nuts and got 4 blades and 5 blades the Quatro or whatever and who knows now they probably have 6.

All that happens is you cut your face, but companies and people get to say "see I have more blades then you". Many of these revolvers like the .500 and what not with the larger loads seem largely impractical and they look like something that should be shot out of a rifle.

There's a point of diminishing returns with everything, and many products in America these days really seem to push the limits of practicality into danger zones, and that leads to buyers remorse.

The .500 in general appears to me to be more of a novelty gun (sort of like a .50 Desert Eagle)... where you get to say "my gun is bigger than yours" and that's about it I.E. they have little realistic practicality outside of being a novelty. The ammo for them is also ridiculously expensive.

It's just this kind of mentality I don't want in griz country. If they make other people happy though then go for it. Ok I know I'm off topic back to revolvers and bears.

That said I'm sort of leaning toward the .44 magnum as an option. Spaniel the Super Ruger Redhawk Alaskan do you think that's a good option? That does seem like a beautiful little revolver and easily accessible and easy to carry. Do you have any idea what is the maximum recommend grain for a bullet to use in any of these .44 magnums like the Super Redhawk Alaskan?

What ammo do you use?
 
The 500 serves the purpose of confusing people into thinking the 44 magnum is a little revolver.
 
ADN258
Since you're now considering the .44magnum, I thought that I would share my video of what the recoil is like from the hottest .44 magnum factory load that I have available (Remington 240 grain gas check). I am shooting the .44 with my right hand and filming the shot with my camera in my left hand.
The target is a 1/2" diameter Shoot-'n-see dot and the target distance is about 22 yards.
With any load or caliber, shot placement is everything.
The pros that I know use a minimum .338 Win Mag in coastal Alaska. None of these pros shoot their rifles one-handed so a large bore handgun does have at least one advantage.

Mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h3fG_LCqhE
 
Bubbablades--Is that you shooting the 460? I have the 8-3/8 model and it stays on target pretty well. Actually better than my buddies SBH or his PPS. I would love to shoot the 2" model to see the difference. I find it a pleasure to shoot, my only complaint is that I dont have more time to shoot it.
 
The main thing I think you gain over a 44 mag with a 500 S&W or the 480 Ruger is bullet diameter. This does count for something. There are people that really love these big bores and to them the regular 44 mag loadings are pretty tame. I tolerate the recoil of the 41 mag because I really like the caliber and shoot it well. Otherwise, I wouldn't shooting anything more powerful than a 357 mag. Plus I hunt deer with handguns as well.

If I owned a Ruger Alaskan in either 44 mag or 480 Ruger, that is precisely the gun I would carry in your situation. I have no love for the 454 Casull. If I didn't, I'd carry my 4" M57 (41 mag) with hard cast bullets. HSM loads an affordable 230 gr Lead SWC gas check "Bear Load" in 41 mag, which is precisely what I would be carrying. I believe they have a similar load for 44 mag. Should be plenty in most cases. Hopefully, you will never need to find out.
 
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I mean 600 grain Brenneke black magic slug at 1500 fps will do just as well as anything a .500 will do
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The big, heavy bullets of the 500 will out penetrate the slug in a real bear, and can go end to end in most cases, it is a great gun/round combo for bear. The shotgun is more accurate in most folks hands, but not as handy ... under stress I am dubious about most hitting a fast moving bear with a handgun. I still carry my 500 sometimes in Alaska, but mostly my .458 LOTT, who cares about convenience, it is more convenient than getting dead!!!
Either is better than nothing, but the subject matter was the 500 question. In most cases most folks will not get the barrel on the bear in time, but you MUST carry anyway, if you want to survive.

PS> When I say MOST, that includes me. I have hunted and killed running jack rabbits with my Colt S.A.A. Army in 45 Colt, even killed an inflight Pheasant with it, and other fast moving game with a handgun, BUT, and there always is a but in life, THEY AIN'T A GRIZZ!!! No one knows how they will do in such a situation before actually doing it. If they say so, they are lying...
 
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The little 4" 500 is about the perfect sixgun for the high country. The 4" 500 is not too big/heavy. I carry mine all over in Montana.

I forget that I even have mine on when it is carried in a good Leather Chest Holster.

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The 350 is too light for it's diameter. It is almost a round ball. It requires too much velocity to penitrate well and I found where they had tumbled..the Hollow Point 350gr ammo will give you less than 12" penitration... You would be better off with a 320gr hardcast 44mag.

But...if you raise it to a 450gr cast you have a really nice shaped bullet. It only needs to be driven 1100+/- fps to be very effective and recoil is VERY easy to manage at this velocity with the little 4" X-frame.

Loaded to full potential of 1475fps the 450's will, (without a doubt) DAMAGE your wrist, hand, and arm bones.

You have to get the loads down where you can shoot them well, and shoot them OFTEN....you always hear guys say "I could do it if I had to"...Not a chance!!!..If you can't shoot it well when you "want to"...there is NO WAY you can "do" it when you have to.;)


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The big, heavy bullets of the 500 will out penetrate the slug in a real bear
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Out penetrate? I bet all of 'em will go right through any bears vitals. So which shoots through more is moot. They will all go well past the vitals of any bear.

In Alaska the Wildlife commission recommends 12 gauge with slugs for bear medicine and the 12 is very popular up there for that use.

Now you can talk about handiness, but effectiveness well no.

Deaf
 
Go big...

May actually be safer with plain old chemical bear spray or at least try that
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......When a bear has targeted you for dinner, you don't have time to try lesser forces first. Go big, be quick, be accurate!
 
WildBill and Freedom475 know of what they speak. Slugs are a terrible choice and are only effective in myths and legends. They are terrible penetrators and even the best slugs beat the snot out of you for only mediocre performance.


I bet all of 'em will go right through any bears vitals.
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This is what some folks just can't understand. A shot through the vitals of a charging bear is worthless. You need to stop him and to do that, you much either hit the CNS or break down his support structure. Break the shoulders and the hips if possible. You want ALL the penetration you can get because a shoulder shot may very well break a hip on the way out. This is the difference between killing a bear and stopping him. Slugs just don't cut it.

The USFS recommends a 12ga with slugs NOT because they are the most effective but because they're cheap and everyone has one. Not a big deal for a neophyte to go out and buy a $200 shotgun. Much more of a commitment to buy a stopping rifle. They also make this recommendation based on a 30yr old heavily flawed and outdated study. The 220gr .30-06 CoreLokts performed very well in their test because everything else they tested sucked. Interesting that they would issue all their officers .375's if they could afford it. Funny how we tend to NOT trust the government, until it suits our argument. :rolleyes:
 
I had the 4" 500. Sold it after a time an got the SRH Alaskan in 454. Sure the 500 is powerful (for a handgun) but it is stupid big an heavy for a handgun too.

I'd go for something that starts in .4 and use heavy for caliber hard cast bullets.

IMO the 500 is more of a novelty item than a working gun. I actually found myself leaving it home and favoring my Marlin 45-70. Much handier to pack a great carrying rifle than a stupid big revolver.

I still used the SRH for fishing (when a rifle is not practical).
 
I agree. What we need is for Ruger to legitimize a standard length .500 for use in sanely sized sixguns. Even if they further shorten the .500JRH and make it a proprietary cartridge. Also to expand their selection of .480's. Make them all five-shots.
 
This is what some folks just can't understand. A shot through the vitals of a charging bear is worthless. You need to stop him and to do that, you much either hit the CNS or break down his support structure. Break the shoulders and the hips if possible. You want ALL the penetration you can get because a shoulder shot may very well break a hip on the way out. This is the difference between killing a bear and stopping him. Slugs just don't cut it.
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I'd agree with this. If a grizzly is charging you, you're not hunting the darn thing, you're trying to save your life. You don't have time for him to bleed out. If he isn't stopped in his tracks, you're going to bleed out right beside him - only quicker.

The USFS recommends a 12ga with slugs NOT because they are the most effective but because they're cheap and everyone has one. Not a big deal for a neophyte to go out and buy a $200 shotgun. Much more of a commitment to buy a stopping rifle. They also make this recommendation based on a 30yr old heavily flawed and outdated study. The 220gr .30-06 CoreLokts performed very well in their test because everything else they tested sucked. Interesting that they would issue all their officers .375's if they could afford it. Funny how we tend to NOT trust the government, until it suits our argument.
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Most slugs I've seen are very soft and poorly shaped (round). They're intended for deer, not bears.

Let's be honest about all of this though - if you have a grizzly after you, there isn't a sane person on earth who would prefer a revolver in his hands over a .375 H&H or better.
 
You need to stop him and to do that, you much either hit the CNS or break down his support structure.
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Uh... well the 'vitals' usually will have such bones in the way so yes a 12 gauge slug will do just fine. It will go through no matter what they hit.

Like I said, slugs are very popular in Alaska for bear protection and recommend by all agencies there.

Notice Brenneke Black Magic and what they do.

http://www.brenneke-munition.de/cms/blackmagic.html

Deaf
 
Whatever you get, make sure it is something you will always carry. If it's even a little bit of a pain to haul around there is a good chance it will be at home, in the truck, in the tent or even just out of reach on that convenient stump... Only five seconds away when the bad guy bear can be on you in four seconds.

That is the only reason I'm not a 500 S&W advocate, it's a pain to keep on your person all of the time, even with a high quality holster.

Heck, even the SRH AK was a pretty big gun, just not so big that I ever felt the need to take a break from wearing it. I've grown fond of the trimmer lines of the single action flavors.
 
Well like I posted way above, if I was to go in bear country I'd take my S&W 629 4 inch .44.

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With a good hard cast heavy slug.

And if I really really thought there was a good chance of running into serious bear problems, well yea, I'd take my 18 inch barrel Mossie with some of those Black Magic slugs or some of their LEO barrier penetration slugs. And that is while I carried the .44!

http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/max-barrier-pen.html

Deaf
 
Uh... well the 'vitals' usually will have such bones in the way so yes a 12 gauge slug will do just fine. It will go through no matter what they hit.
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Different mindset, different target. You don't shoot for the center of the chest on a charging bear. You break his shoulder. You don't really care if it hits the heart or not. A heart shot will kill the bear but it's also signing your own death warrant because the bear will have ample opportunity to stomp a mudhole in your posterior orifice and walk it dry before he knows he's dead. It's not like we don't have a hundred years worth of dangerous game hunting expertise to learn from. :rolleyes:


It will go through no matter what they hit.
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How many bears have you killed with slugs? They would have to be "magic" to defy the laws of terminal ballistics and kill like the hammer of Thor, like so many seem to believe. Even the Black Magic has a terrible sectional density. No, there's no magic. A 12ga slug will penetrate comparable to a hard cast pistol bullet of similar sectional density. Wishful thinking won't make them better than they are but I don't expect logic and reason to have any influence on the outcome of this discussion.
 
It it was so bad... why are the recommended by every Alaskan department for bear protection? Can you answer that? Yes, no?

They even issue shotguns.

I can easily give the links to many Alaskan game departments that recommend shotguns. You want them?

Now can YOU show me examples of the 12 gauge slugs failing on bears? Can you? Yes or no?

I doubt it but I can also (Google is your friend/enemy) cases of shotguns being used to stop bear attacks successfully.

Deaf
 
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