S.649: Reid's Base Gun Control Bill

Yeah. That many of the people making the laws, haven't participated in what they're regulating. Go stop 50 people on the street and ask them about buying a gun on the internet. Bet a bunch of em think that gun ships to your house.

For the life of me, I don't understand what is so difficult about copying and pasting the already approved and 20+ year old laws applying NICS checks to store sales to any private transfer of title?
 
http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/04/10/coverage-of-the-toomey-manchin-gun-control-press-conference/

Short version:

Manchin and Toomey proposal still not accepted by Schumer
They claim it will extend checks to "gun shows" and "online sales" but refused to define either term
They claim it will make the travelling protections in FOPA extra double-serious and NY will have to stop imprisoning people trapped at LaGuardia during connecting flights
They claim it will allow service members to buy a gun in their home state as well as the state they are based in.
Manchin claims this is a "first step" in "nationwide CCW reciprocity" that would give us "more control"; Toomey pointedly declined to go along with that but said he supports CCW reciprocity.
 
While I will reserve final judgement until I can read the actual text of the proposal, I am concerned that "extending background checks to gun shows and internet sales" will entail far more than many people might envision.

With respect to gun shows, Lautenberg's S.22 provides an example of how to lock down sales at guns shows ("If any part of a firearm transaction takes place at a gun show" and "exhibits, sells, offers for sale, transfers, or exchanges").

I suspect that "internet sales" will not be limited to interstate sales as they currently exist, but will encompass any sales involving advertisement or communication over the internet, and probably other forms of electronic communication.

At least the press release says that the bill provides for "exempting temporary transfers."
 
gc70 said:
I suspect that "internet sales" will not be limited to interstate sales as they currently exist, but will encompass any sales involving advertisement or communication over the internet, and probably other forms of electronic communication.
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I agree. I don't think the target is great big prominent auction websites like GB; I think the target is classified ads like the one on this forum- i.e. 'Net-based ads seeking an in-state FTF transfer.
 
From the link in Bart's post:
- Family transfers and some private sales (friends, neighbors, other individuals) are exempt from background checks
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So, umm, some private transfers (family, friends, neighbors, and other invidividuals . . . ) are exempt. I just can't WAIT to see how they worded this one. :rolleyes:
 
The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act

Not the actual bill text, but the Press release from Senator Toomey, with a more than usually detailed summary of the sections and points in the bil is located here.

Some highlights...
- Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm.
- Fixes interstate travel laws for sportsmen who transport their firearms across state lines in a responsible manner. The term "transport" includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, buying fuel, vehicle maintenance, and medical treatment.
- Permits interstate handgun sales from dealers.
 
With respect to gun shows, Lautenberg's S.22 provides an example of how to lock down sales at guns shows ("If any part of a firearm transaction takes place at a gun show" and "exhibits, sells, offers for sale, transfers, or exchanges").

I suspect that "internet sales" will not be limited to interstate sales as they currently exist, but will encompass any sales involving advertisement or communication over the internet, and probably other forms of electronic communication.
Click to expand...

To my understanding based on what I've read so far, this is exactly what they are doing. Private FTF transfers will need to go through an FFL for a NICS check if the sale occurs at a gun show or was advertised on the Internet. Gun show NICs checks would also get priority over other checks, and the sale will be able to proceed after a two day delay, instead of three days like the current system (it will go down to 24 hours after four years).
 
So they want us to believe they are going to be willing to break the chain of information???

So I buy a gun under form 4473 and sell/give it to my son who sells it to a friend who trades it to a neighbor who sells it under 4473???

Where did the gun go after hogdogs bought it???

Seems like they are trying to make themselves look neutered in favor of a passing vote and then then this little GOTCHA MOMENT...

Whoops, we seem to have a flaw in our system, we need a BGC on all transactions to protect Mr.hogdogs from being wrongly accused of a crime he didn't commit since he sold the gun without a 4473 involved...

Brent
 
There is some good stuff in the Toomey bill:

Quotes from Toomey's site (emphasis is mine):

The bill explicitly bans the federal government from creating a national firearms registry, and imposes serious criminal penalties (a felony with up to 15 years in prison) on any person who misuses or illegally retains firearms records.

- Fixes interstate travel laws for sportsmen who transport their firearms across state lines in a responsible manner. The term "transport" includes staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, buying fuel, vehicle maintenance, and medical treatment. Good start. "Sportsmen" needs to be replaced by "gun owners".

- Authorizes use of a state concealed carry permit instead of a background check when purchasing a firearm from a dealer. Very good
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Of course, the devil is in the details.
 
Got to see the bill. My problem is that if you add a restriction, you should get something in return. I suggested previously (and to buddies at the NRA) that if this does happen - the bill should not be passed unless it adds to gun rights.

For example, let NICS be the law of the land and no state can have checks or waiting periods on top of NICS. Let no state ban guns, mags, clips, phasers, etc. - federal law will determine such. That would wipe out NY, CT and CO horrors.

But just to give in on this - it will be seen as a good but small, first step. Having a NICS on private sales at shows but wiping out the state laws would be fun - now wouldn't it - Chuck, Mike and Diane?
 
That summary still has some jaw droppers in it.
Fixing the vagueness of the interstate travel protections? From the summary, it sounds like you could go from Florida to Maine, and stop for the night IN NEW YORK, get a hotel room, and still be protected- when we weren't even sure you could stop for gas or food.
 
If the Camel gets his nose under the tent his body will soon follow.

I have feared from the beginning that this is something that has a good chance of passing simply because most people are so uninformed about the current process. They seem to understand banning certain types of guns and for the most part opposed those actions. However, they just do not understand how much regulation currently exist and how much of a burden this will be on law abiding citizens with little impact on crime.
 
Got to see which Bill Glenn? There's a new one I and Bartholomew Roberts have reported which got merged into this thread a little early, as it's not part of 649 yet. Just announced this morning.
 
"The bill explicitly bans the federal government from creating a national firearms registry, and imposes serious criminal penalties (a felony with up to 15 years in prison) on any person who misuses or illegally retains firearms records."

So if a private sale is made, you can't keep a record of who you sold it to?
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Reid already has the votes to override the filibuster of the motion to proceed. Corker, McCain, Flake, Chambliss, Coburn, Ayotte, and two or three more I can't remember have already indicated they want debate to go forward (which is a great strategy for the Republican party if you don't mind using the Second Amendment as the staked down goat for your tiger hunt).
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That is it in a nutshell. We have senators on both sides playing their political games of intrigue and goat polo using the 2A as the goat.

And to think MCain was the R presidential candidate!! He has been obsessed with back door gun registration for years. That's all this UBC is and for any senator to pretend any compromise does not lead to it is disingenuous.
 
Although still second-hand information, the Washington Post reports:

A bipartisan group of senators has struck a deal to expand gun background checks to all commercial sales — whether at gun shows, via the Internet or in any circumstance involving paid advertising, according to Senate aides familiar with the talks.

The amendment to the guns legislation already proposed in the Senate would not cover private transactions between individuals, unless there was advertising or an online service involved.
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The New York Daily News has an interesting story on what was in play during the negotiations, but left out in the final deal.
 
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