Russia crashes: Traces of explosives found
- Thread starter PsychoSword
- Start date
Yeah; Lemnitzer and his pals were prepared to whoosh a U.S. ship, aircraft - or "liven up" an Amercian city or two - to get their ball rolling.
The problem with state terrorism is that it is the state that usually controls the investigations and evidence. So generally speaking it is indeed very hard to "prove" state involvement. But there are past concrete examples, and it is interesting that in spite of such past examples there are still many people that have a mental block over politicians and those who pull their strings murdering their own citizens (or anyone else) for their own ends.
The problem with state terrorism is that it is the state that usually controls the investigations and evidence. So generally speaking it is indeed very hard to "prove" state involvement. But there are past concrete examples, and it is interesting that in spite of such past examples there are still many people that have a mental block over politicians and those who pull their strings murdering their own citizens (or anyone else) for their own ends.
Destructo6
New member
You have proof it got past the proposal phase? FYI, lots of stuff gets proposed.
Yes, a lack of proof is proof to some.
Destructo6,
In the case of Operation Northwood - it "only" reached the proposal stage. But had we had a different president at the time that may have not been the case. But it begs the questions; you have to ask yourself what kind of people openly suggest such a scheme, put it in writing on a letterhead memo, and sign it and forward it to the White House?
People like Lemnitzer did not, and do not, operate in a vacuum. So you have to ask yourself what kind of people were working with and around him? Who were they? How did they hatch this idea and yet remain working for the U.S. government in any capacity whatsoever? Why were they not handed formal indictments? Who, by name, protected these people?
In the case of Operation Northwood - it "only" reached the proposal stage. But had we had a different president at the time that may have not been the case. But it begs the questions; you have to ask yourself what kind of people openly suggest such a scheme, put it in writing on a letterhead memo, and sign it and forward it to the White House?
People like Lemnitzer did not, and do not, operate in a vacuum. So you have to ask yourself what kind of people were working with and around him? Who were they? How did they hatch this idea and yet remain working for the U.S. government in any capacity whatsoever? Why were they not handed formal indictments? Who, by name, protected these people?
PsychoSword
Moderator
Taking all of history into account, it's hard to believe how many people are completely trustful of their government, especially when 'their party' is in power.
fyrestarter
New member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the replies by most seem to suggest that they believe that the Russian government may have had something to do with the crash of those two planes. If one senses a conspiracy within the Russian government pointing towards the fact that they may have staged the plane crashes to implicate muslim terrorists, tell me this: do you also believe that the US government was behind 911? Seems just as likely, no? And just as ridiculous.
It's pretty clear who our enemy is, regardless what the conspiracy hounds and anti-war protesters would like to think.
It's pretty clear who our enemy is, regardless what the conspiracy hounds and anti-war protesters would like to think.
Destructo6
New member
People tasked with the job of coming up with new ideas. Some are conventional, some are crazy, others are just crazy enough to work.
PsychoSword
Moderator
Yea, all of human history is just a lie. A government would never do something like that.
Excuse me while I :barf:fyrestarter
New member
You didn't exactly answer my question. While I acknowledge the fact that governments, since the beginning of time, have lied, cheated, and duped their citizens, I'm asking if in fact you believe that the US government was behind the 911 attacks to advance their "nefarious" purposes? Cause it sure as heck appears as if you believe the Russians are capable of such a thing.
Destructo6,
I see. And exactly what terminology would anyone use to describe an act such as destroying a U.S. ship or aircraft, or engineering "terrorist" attacks on U.S. cities to steer public opinion in the pursuit of a political agenda such as attacking a foreign country or other motive?
How about treason? Or can you think of a better one?
I see. And exactly what terminology would anyone use to describe an act such as destroying a U.S. ship or aircraft, or engineering "terrorist" attacks on U.S. cities to steer public opinion in the pursuit of a political agenda such as attacking a foreign country or other motive?
How about treason? Or can you think of a better one?
Last edited:
Fyrestarter,
I would certainly not entertain the idea that it was the entire "United States government", or any department. But on the otherhand, I do not believe it was Mohammed Eyeliner Atta or Hani I-can't-fly-planes Hanjour, for reasons detailed in other threads, and many others. But someones is not telling the truth, and has worked very hard to make it as difficult as possible - or impossible - to get some specific information. The 9/11 "Commission" did nothing to answer the many unanswered questions either - or expose the named individuals that blocked the efforts of the FBI etc to thwart the attacks. The "liberal we-hate-Bush-anyone-but-Bush" media has done a very good job of not covering some of the more qualified and intellectual dissent over what did or did not transpire during the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. They have also conveniently not given any coverage to some of the family members who did not take the payoffs in return for silence and are not happy with the "explanations".
I do not trust people who steal from me; especially those who do it openly under the pretense that it is "normal".
There is no reason to accept the idea that the Russian government underwent some magical transaformation just because of a change of structure. There are plenty of other possible motives for downing a couple of airliners. Were I investigating a downed airliner, as well as the usual questions and avenues of inquiry, one of my first interests would be the passenger manifests. Russia has had something of a power struggle within over many years now, and "the muslim terrorists" could be a convenient scapegoat for alot of things.
I would certainly not entertain the idea that it was the entire "United States government", or any department. But on the otherhand, I do not believe it was Mohammed Eyeliner Atta or Hani I-can't-fly-planes Hanjour, for reasons detailed in other threads, and many others. But someones is not telling the truth, and has worked very hard to make it as difficult as possible - or impossible - to get some specific information. The 9/11 "Commission" did nothing to answer the many unanswered questions either - or expose the named individuals that blocked the efforts of the FBI etc to thwart the attacks. The "liberal we-hate-Bush-anyone-but-Bush" media has done a very good job of not covering some of the more qualified and intellectual dissent over what did or did not transpire during the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. They have also conveniently not given any coverage to some of the family members who did not take the payoffs in return for silence and are not happy with the "explanations".
I do not trust people who steal from me; especially those who do it openly under the pretense that it is "normal".
There is no reason to accept the idea that the Russian government underwent some magical transaformation just because of a change of structure. There are plenty of other possible motives for downing a couple of airliners. Were I investigating a downed airliner, as well as the usual questions and avenues of inquiry, one of my first interests would be the passenger manifests. Russia has had something of a power struggle within over many years now, and "the muslim terrorists" could be a convenient scapegoat for alot of things.
fyrestarter
New member
As another forum member had previously alluded to on a different thread (I believe it was First Freedom, apologies if I'm mistaken), let me refer to Occam's Razor, or, in more scientific terms, the principle of parsimony:
One should always choose the simplest explanation of a phenomenon, the one that requires the fewest leaps of logic. It's based on an Aristotelian principle that states that entities must not be multiplied beyond what is necessary.
(opinion: While the 911 Commission was a fine concept, it was executed with typical liberal ineptitude and finger-pointing, and, more to the point, without considering the principle of parsimony.)
Radical Muslim terrorists crashed planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania.
Radical Muslim Terrorists set off a bomb in the WTC in 1993.
Radical Muslim Terrorists crashed a ship full of explosives into the USS Cole.
Radical Muslim Terrorists have set off bombs in countless embassies around the world.
Radical Muslim Terrorists set off explosives in a train in Madrid.
Radical Muslim Terrorists have recently threatened to turn Rome into "hell" if Italy does not pull out of Iraq.
Radical Muslim Terrorists have kidnapped and threatened the life of French journalists if France does not reverse its policy on religious headwear.
And now two Russian planes have gone down, with traces of explosives found. On the plane were Amanta Nagayeva and S. Dzhebirkhanova, two Chechen women whose names were listed on tickets for the flights, two Chechen woman who both bought their tickets at the last minute and were the only victims about whom no relatives inquired after news of the crashes. A Web site connected with militant Muslims posted a statement Friday from the "Islambouli Brigades" claiming responsibility for the crashes. It warned that the group supported the Chechen rebels, and that the attack marked just the first in a series of planned operations. (source: Foxnews.com)
Occam's Razor states that, logically, conspiracy theories concerning the Russian Government and the like are a waste of time, and Radical Muslim Terrorists are to blame.
One should always choose the simplest explanation of a phenomenon, the one that requires the fewest leaps of logic. It's based on an Aristotelian principle that states that entities must not be multiplied beyond what is necessary.
(opinion: While the 911 Commission was a fine concept, it was executed with typical liberal ineptitude and finger-pointing, and, more to the point, without considering the principle of parsimony.)
Radical Muslim terrorists crashed planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania.
Radical Muslim Terrorists set off a bomb in the WTC in 1993.
Radical Muslim Terrorists crashed a ship full of explosives into the USS Cole.
Radical Muslim Terrorists have set off bombs in countless embassies around the world.
Radical Muslim Terrorists set off explosives in a train in Madrid.
Radical Muslim Terrorists have recently threatened to turn Rome into "hell" if Italy does not pull out of Iraq.
Radical Muslim Terrorists have kidnapped and threatened the life of French journalists if France does not reverse its policy on religious headwear.
And now two Russian planes have gone down, with traces of explosives found. On the plane were Amanta Nagayeva and S. Dzhebirkhanova, two Chechen women whose names were listed on tickets for the flights, two Chechen woman who both bought their tickets at the last minute and were the only victims about whom no relatives inquired after news of the crashes. A Web site connected with militant Muslims posted a statement Friday from the "Islambouli Brigades" claiming responsibility for the crashes. It warned that the group supported the Chechen rebels, and that the attack marked just the first in a series of planned operations. (source: Foxnews.com)
Occam's Razor states that, logically, conspiracy theories concerning the Russian Government and the like are a waste of time, and Radical Muslim Terrorists are to blame.
cool hand luke 22:36
New member
I dunno, we'll always have the sociopath-incompetents at C.I.A. like former DCI Woolsley who'll blame it on the Russian Intelligence services.
He and others at the Cult of Incompetent A******s have, for example, always blamed the apartment-block bombings on the FSB, not the Chechnyan Al-Queda terrorists.
Then again, if these clowns at CIA didn't have their heads squarely up their rectums on Al-Queda there wouldn't be 3000 dead Americans on 9/11.
Destructo6
New member
How about "propaganda"? Did you actually read the document in question?
fyrestarter
New member
Roadkill....yeah, that must be "propaganda" too....perhaps even the CIA and the Illuminati were in on it....couldn't possibly be Radical Muslim Terrorists.
Destructo6
New member
Yep, Putin dressed himself up like a woman and blew himself up. No problem, though, because Haliburton has hundreds of Putin clones for just this purpose.
Destructo6,
Yes, I have. Have you? Perhaps you would like some verbatum quotes? Or would you perhaps be better off finding and reading the document yourself? I can give you a clue; at least one university has seen fit to archive it on pdf, and you can find it at the National Archive as well.
Something I have noticed often is that scoffers are not very good at getting off their backsides and finding out for themselves - or even looking while sitting on their backsides with access to a telephone and computer.
Yes, I have. Have you? Perhaps you would like some verbatum quotes? Or would you perhaps be better off finding and reading the document yourself? I can give you a clue; at least one university has seen fit to archive it on pdf, and you can find it at the National Archive as well.
Something I have noticed often is that scoffers are not very good at getting off their backsides and finding out for themselves - or even looking while sitting on their backsides with access to a telephone and computer.
Fred Hansen
New member
By the time this thread gets locked there won't be a single Secret of the Sons of Zion left.
I'm never sharing secrets with you guys again.
Roadkill,
Well what a coincidence; the same source you provide over a "suicide" bombing in Russia, and the downing of two airliners has a bit to say about Operation Northwoods.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html
Well what a coincidence; the same source you provide over a "suicide" bombing in Russia, and the downing of two airliners has a bit to say about Operation Northwoods.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html