Ruger VS S&W newb questions.

You can get a Ruger in .454 Casull which takes the .44 a level higher. It can be loaded down to duplicate the .44 mag level, it can also fire the .45 Colt and this flexibility makes it an obvious front runner in a choice at least to me. YMMV

I think if you like the Freedom arms you would already have considered a Ruger Super Blackhawk 5 Shot Bisley in .454?
 
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.45 Colt and this flexibility makes it an obvious front runner in a choice at least to me.
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Unless loaded extra hot, wouldn't velocity and jump to forcing cone affect accuracy?

I definitely get better accuracy from my .44Mags than Spl's.
 
"Unless loaded extra hot, wouldn't velocity and jump to forcing cone affect accuracy?"

If you mean would the .45 Colt have a bit of degraded accuracy? Maybe, Maybe not, but what's your point?

With your .44 were you "target shooting" at an X ring, or shooting at larger targets as you would hunting? Were you shooting from a rest, offhand? At what distance? Did your spread on the targets go out into left field, miss the page? Nah I don't think so.

I've shot thousands of .45 ACP in a .45 Colt, .38 in a .357, .44 special in a .44 mag and never saw much growth in group size if any. As a matter of fact some people shooting a more sedate cartridge in a magnum gun can see BETTER accuracy because they're not expecting a hand numbing jolt from a magnum cartridge.

Bear in mind, that the .454 is downloadable to .44 mag levels, something that's NOT true of the .44 which is at it's best is a .44 mag, not shabby by any stretch but not a .454 either.

If I bought a Bisley (which I may) I'd likely buy 500 rounds of Casull brass and be done with it. I load .45 Win mag and I have .454 load data, press, dies, powder, bullets, I'm RTG!
 
maybe I'm wrong, but it should be remembered that there is an enormous difference between the .44 and the .454. I've seen people fire the .454, and I wouldn't touch that doggy. try one and decide whether or not you are ready to take on a brute that's almost as powerful as a 20 gauge heavy slug.
 
Bear in mind, that the .454 is downloadable to .44 mag levels, something that's NOT true of the .44 which is at it's best is a .44 mag, not shabby by any stretch but not a .454 either.
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Sometimes for my granddaughter(she's 7), I'll load my .460 down to .454 levels.

I only ever ask my .44 mags to be .44 mags.........kinda why I got 'em.
 
44 AMP - Ruger dropped production of the Vaquero (44mag size frame gun), and replaced it with the NEW VAQUERO, a smaller, Colt frame sized gun. The New Vaquero will NOT safely handle "Ruger Only" .45 colt loads!!! Even though is it a Ruger, it is not as big and strong as the (44 frame) Blackhawk and Vaquero.

The New Vaquero is considered to be in the same strength class as the Colt SAA (and clones). You can push a 250gr up to a bit over 1000fps (depending on barrel length) but that is about the MAX for that gun.
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In 45 Colt there are Tier I at 14000 max psi, tier II at 20000 max and Tier III ( "Ruger Only) at 30000 max. The Colt SAA is Tier I at 45 Colt SAAMI spec. The New Vaquero can be up to Tier II. The NMBH and Redhawk are capable of Tier III, as is the "Old" Vaquero. I shoot guns in each tier, with the New Vaquero having no problem with Tier II loads like my 20.0 gr IMR 4227 and 255 gr coated SWC.
 
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"I only ever ask my .44 mags to be .44 mags.........kinda why I got 'em. "

Yeah, but that's all it will be. the Win mag and Casull are easy to load any way tou want, and in a launching platform made for the more powerful, they are a dream to shoot.
 
Yeah, but that's all it will be.
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Plenty for what I expect would be a majority. My criteria is that the 44 Magnum platform and the 45 Colt are guns as big as I would ever want to carry...belt, shoulder rig, whatever.
 
Originally posted by gnappi:

"I only ever ask my .44 mags to be .44 mags.........kinda why I got 'em. "

Yeah, but that's all it will be. the Win mag and Casull are easy to load any way tou want, and in a launching platform made for the more powerful, they are a dream to shoot.
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I don't need my .44 mags to be anything more. If I want more, I get a bigger gun. As I said, I download my .460 to wimpy .454 levels for my 7 year old granddaughter. :D
 
Get a .500.

I'm serious. You can reload for it easily, and can even make ".500 S&W Special" loads that are much easier on you. I recommend either the 6" or 8 3/8" versions.

Trust me, they are like losing your virginity. You might be nervous the first time you do it, but after that, nothing else compares. :cool:
 
Now that is just plain mean. I bet you've never let her shoot your .505 Gibbs, either.
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Not mean, just making a point. The point being that the .44 mag is no slouch.....and regardless of what size gun you have, someone else may just have something bigger and badder and think yours is small.
 
Unless loaded extra hot, wouldn't velocity and jump to forcing cone affect accuracy?
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Not according to the testing that's been done. Heavy .45's shoot very well out of the new .454 Super Blackhawk.


In 45 Colt there are Tier I at 14000 max psi, tier II at 20000 max and Tier III ( "Ruger Only) at 30000 max. The Colt SAA is Tier I at 45 Colt SAAMI spec. The New Vaquero can be up to Tier II. The NMBH and Redhawk are capable of Tier III, as is the old 3-screw Vaquero. I shoot guns in each tier, with the New Vaquero having no problem with Tier II loads like my 20.0 gr IMR 4227 and 255 gr coated SWC.
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The post-war Colt and late model replicas are also fine with Tier II and there's no such thing as a "3-screw Vaquero".
 
The post-war Colt and late model replicas are also fine with Tier II
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The OK on Tier II in a New Vaquero may be no more formal, but by what process do we know those other guns are okay, my Uberti El Patron for example?
 
First off, lets be clear, NO maker warranties their guns for anything above SAAMI standard.

We used to have "Ruger Only" loads, but then we used to have only ONE Ruger to shoot those loads in. Today, its different.

Tier I,II,III can get confusing, and is not something recognized by gun makers, officially.

Colts, and clones are good for the standard SAAMI approved loads (now being called "tier I"). EVERYTHING is good for "Tier I".

Your gun MAY be able to handle stronger loads, but there is NO official sanction, so you are on your own. CAREFUL load work up can show you where the safe stopping point is. Less than careful load work up can show you where the safe stopping point WAS!. :eek:

My personal standard "heavy" .45 Colt load is a 250grSWC and 10gr Unique. This is the listed MAX in all the old books for a Colt SAA. Well below the top end a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt can handle, it is not uncomfortable to shoot, does nearly 1100fps from my 7.5", and is accurate in my guns.

I don't know for certain, but it ought to also be safe in the DA .45Colt guns, although it is likely also a max load for them. Again, one has to CAREFULLY determine what your individual gun will take.

Remember, when you go beyond SAAMI specs, you are "off the map" and while other people's experiences can be a guideline, the "rules" are dependent on what your gun actually does.

Tread cautiously when exploring off the map, there be dragons here!!!:D
 
Tier I,II,III can get confusing, and is not something recognized by gun makers, officially.
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Kinda makes you want to cancel all your gun rag subscriptions, if all things must flow directly from gun makers. The reloading side is also largely informal.
 
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The OK on Tier II in a New Vaquero may be no more formal, but by what process do we know those other guns are okay, my Uberti El Patron for example?
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The writings of Brian Pearce and Dave Scovill on Colt's and the fact that the Uberti guns are available in .45ACP. Which operates at the same pressure.

Scovill's book is excellent if you don't already have it.
 
Yes, but that is all on faith and is circumstantial. The 45 ACP convertible cylinder would gain some additional strength by a much longer throat.

I have Brian Pearce's article on the levels of 45 Colt loads. I have Scovill's book on my Kindle but have not digested all of it. I am not currently subscribed to Handloader due to such esoteric topics and a minimum of material I can actually use in what I personally am doing sans rifles.
 
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