I just decided to donate all proceeds from the sale of these decals to Ron Pauls campaign.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248082
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248082
Ron Paul just ended his campaign
- Thread starter STAGE 2
- Start date
So be it. I reserve the right to speak my mind as much as the next person here. Furthermore, I'm not wrong. Even the most ardent of Paul supporters must concede that there isn't any way that Paul will take the nomination. The GOP doesn't want him. He doesn't appeal to mainstream repubilcans (whether thats good or bad) and certianly not to democrats.
I'm not arguing whether Paul is or is not a good candidate. I'm simply stating he can't get elected, and after last night, thats even more true.
Because all of the liberal blogs encouraged people to call in and vote for Paul. Its really that simple.
It amazes me that people here can dismiss all of the statistically accurate polls where Paul doesn't even register but hold up 2 polls in which its clear that people are trying to sabotage as gold.
What's the excuse going to be when Paul doesn't even clear 2% in the primaries.
what polls are they that you are talking about that register him as 2%? Were they prior to last night? He is the only one up there with a voice that stands out from all the others, and like he said, there is a reason Republicans lost the vote last year, because they aren't conservative anymore.
You know he's up to 46% in the new MSNBC poll? That's an even more epic whuppin' than the first debate. And now the media can't ignore him.
I wouldn't be so quick to say he "can't" win, but I will be very quick to point this out: I don't care if he can or can't, 'cause I'm voting for him regardless.
I wouldn't be so quick to say he "can't" win, but I will be very quick to point this out: I don't care if he can or can't, 'cause I'm voting for him regardless.
High Planes Drifter
New member
Are any of the mainstream media talk shows talking about him yet? I know Chris Mathews Hardball mentioned something about him and how Giuliani went off on him, but thats all I heard. I really hope he gets some attention out of this, and I hope its more than just "The baseball that Rudy hit a homerun with".
Ron Paul is the only genuine conservative in the current US presidential race. Why? Because he believes in conserving the Constitution, conserving traditional American values, and not liberally spending US blood and money in pointless overseas imbroglios that benefit no one (except perhaps Israel, to the delight of Falwell's flock and the Armageddon fetishists).
Support of foreign interventionism is NOT a traditionally conservative viewpoint. The true conservatives want to bring home the US troops as soon as possible and station them on the US borders to prevent illegal immigrants and terrorists from sneaking in.
The line that "if we don't fight them over there, then we'll have to fight them over here" is obviously bogus. What is stopping any terrorist from coming over here and attacking US civilians NOW? Nothing whatsoever.
Paul was absolutely right that US foreign policy was the reason for the 9/11 attacks. He could have articulated that point a little better (he spoke of "bombing Iraq for 10 years," which I attribute to nervous error), but it's true. Those who say, "Oh, that's blaming America" obviously don't think that the US government can do anything wrong; however, the US government has made many mistakes throughout its history, not to mention its repeated lies and even support of war criminals like Pinochet. The US government is NOT above criticism, and any true patriot knows that.
Voting against Ron Paul is like voting against the Constitution, since he is the only Republican who supports the Constitution. It's just that simple. I will not vote for an anti-Constitution candidate just because that candidate is more likely to win.
Support of foreign interventionism is NOT a traditionally conservative viewpoint. The true conservatives want to bring home the US troops as soon as possible and station them on the US borders to prevent illegal immigrants and terrorists from sneaking in.
The line that "if we don't fight them over there, then we'll have to fight them over here" is obviously bogus. What is stopping any terrorist from coming over here and attacking US civilians NOW? Nothing whatsoever.
Paul was absolutely right that US foreign policy was the reason for the 9/11 attacks. He could have articulated that point a little better (he spoke of "bombing Iraq for 10 years," which I attribute to nervous error), but it's true. Those who say, "Oh, that's blaming America" obviously don't think that the US government can do anything wrong; however, the US government has made many mistakes throughout its history, not to mention its repeated lies and even support of war criminals like Pinochet. The US government is NOT above criticism, and any true patriot knows that.
Voting against Ron Paul is like voting against the Constitution, since he is the only Republican who supports the Constitution. It's just that simple. I will not vote for an anti-Constitution candidate just because that candidate is more likely to win.
no. It just stands to reason, people voted in Republicans into the House, Senate and White House 10 years ago (7 years ago for the white house) because they were tired of 40 years of liberal Democrats.....and nothing got done, the Republicans were just as bad as the Democrats, nothing changed. The only difference between the Reps and Dems is the latter is at least honest about being for big government, bombing countries and stiring up trouble overseas. People stopped buying it on all points (save and except all the neoconartist mouths like Rush mouth Limbaugh, Laura nostril-voice Ingram, Sean Punk Hannity etc. that claim to represent conservatism)
auburnboattail
New member
Are you serious
Mr. Paul states that the 9/11 attacks were our fault!
We were attacked on our soil and 3000 People of all races and reglions were killed.
The terrorists were not soldiers or hereos they were pathetic cowards who killed innocent souls in support of a perverted view of Jihad Wahobism of Islam.
In no way is that justifable, understandable. it is an act of war.
In the 40's we used atomic weapons on a country for attacking Pearl Harbor
and killed hundreds of thousands of people to stop a similiarly fervant people.
The man no only is not credible but a danger to freedom.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)
Mr. Paul states that the 9/11 attacks were our fault!
We were attacked on our soil and 3000 People of all races and reglions were killed.
The terrorists were not soldiers or hereos they were pathetic cowards who killed innocent souls in support of a perverted view of Jihad Wahobism of Islam.
In no way is that justifable, understandable. it is an act of war.
In the 40's we used atomic weapons on a country for attacking Pearl Harbor
and killed hundreds of thousands of people to stop a similiarly fervant people.
The man no only is not credible but a danger to freedom.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)
He said the 911 was the fault of bad U.S. Government foreign policy. He wasn't defending what they did, he was talking about cause and effect. He quoted Reagan and Washington's non-interventionist attitudes to back himself up. I'm glad he said what he did. Just because someone doesn't embrace neo-con flag waving horsedump :barf: (and insult to the intelligence of America) doesn't mean they are a danger to our freedom.
He is credible because he has read the facts unlike those other knowitall inside the beltway play actors on the stage.
I find it a relief to see someone who doesn't march to the beat of their drum.
And YOU say HE is dangerous? Your kind of thinking is even more dangerous than the terrorists! Slaughtering whole cities full of civilians?!!
Don't listen to all the talking heads (they take their lead from the elites), look at the surveys, we already have one form last night, let's see what the rest have to say
He is credible because he has read the facts unlike those other knowitall inside the beltway play actors on the stage.
I find it a relief to see someone who doesn't march to the beat of their drum.
And YOU say HE is dangerous? Your kind of thinking is even more dangerous than the terrorists! Slaughtering whole cities full of civilians?!!Don't listen to all the talking heads (they take their lead from the elites), look at the surveys, we already have one form last night, let's see what the rest have to say
The 9/11 attacks were the fault of the US government, yes.
Far more than 3000 innocent people have been killed due to US foreign policy. When our government kills thousands upon thousands of innocent people, it can be expected that people will hate us and want to retaliate. However, that does not excuse the terrorists' attacks on random American civilians.
By the way, the 9/11 attackers were evil, but they were anything but cowards. It's never cowardly to willingly go on a mission from which you know you won't return. It may feel good to call them cowards, but it's not true.
Ron Paul agreed that the US had to retaliate against terrorists who committed such acts, but the Iraqis themselves had nothing to do with 9/11.
That was itself an act of terrorism. Deliberately killing civilians is always terrorism, whether the US does it or someone else. The ends don't justify the means.
A danger to freedom? How?
And yet most Republicans want to do exactly that, with national ID cards, warrantless wiretaps, etc. Much of Bush's domestic policy has revolved around the notion of trading liberty for security.
Thunderhawk88
Moderator
Really? Who else besides themselves had weapons on the aircraft they hijacked? They attacked unarmed, unprepared civilians. Pretty courageous, huh? Oh yeah, but they certain faced death. Hells bells, they wanted death, to collect the rewards they were promised Yeah, you're right, there weren't cowards........
Dust Monkey
New member
Wow, For a minute there I thought this was DU, with all the Blame America First crowd. I heard mention of Pearl Harbor, did someone blame America or Bush for that one as well.
Look, Paul will not go anywhere. He, for all intents and purposes said that America is to blame for what happened on 9/11. That is a no no, bad ju ju. Look how the crowd reacted to what Rudy shot back. That should be your meter to judge by. I was a fan of Ron Paul, not anymore. Our policy abroad is not "inviting" Terrorism. Just like owning a GUN does not "invite" a killing.
Geez, the blame America crowd used to be screaming, far left wingnuts.
Look, Paul will not go anywhere. He, for all intents and purposes said that America is to blame for what happened on 9/11. That is a no no, bad ju ju. Look how the crowd reacted to what Rudy shot back. That should be your meter to judge by. I was a fan of Ron Paul, not anymore. Our policy abroad is not "inviting" Terrorism. Just like owning a GUN does not "invite" a killing.
Geez, the blame America crowd used to be screaming, far left wingnuts.
Warriors fight on the open field. Warriors attack only those that take up arms against them. Cowards target the weak and the frail. Cowards shoot in the back rather than fight from the front. Going on a suicide mission and being a coward aren't mutually exclusive, These people ARE cowards.
Thunderhawk88 said:
You guys are entitled to your opinions, but I disagree. Willingly facing death, even if for an evil purpose, is the absolute opposite of cowardice. Note, however, that I did not claim that the hijackers were "warriors." They were terrorists. What they did was about as courageous as the US nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.STAGE 2 said:
So you think the US government can do no wrong and should never be blamed for anything? And you equate the American government with America?Dust Monkey said:
No, he did not. He said that American foreign policy was to blame. America is not equivalent to its government. If it is, then watch out if a Democrat gets elected, because every time you disagree with the Democratic president you will be acting "unpatriotic" and "unAmerican."
They reacted like a herd of bleating sheep.
No, I judge for myself without looking to see what the majority is doing. The majority isn't always right, and frequently the majority are extremely gullible, as when most Americans were suckered into invading Iraq in the first place because of "Saddam's WMDs." However, I have heard that Ron Paul did very well in the polls after the debate, so maybe there's a ray of hope.
Osama bin Laden himself stated that the reasons for 9/11 were (1) US military presence in Arabian lands, (2) Iraq sanctions (which killed many thousands of innocent Iraqis), and (3) uncritical US support for Israel. These were the reasons he gave, and they all relate to foreign policy.
Terrorists have every reason to tell the truth about their motives and goals. They have no reason to lie -- what would be the point of lying about their demands? So US meddling in the Middle East is unquestionably the reason why radical Islamists hate the US. The current Iraq occupation is only making it worse.
No one's blaming America -- only its government. The same government that brought you the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, Waco, and Ruby Ridge; the same government that propped up brutal dictators like Pinochet; the same government that lies to its citizens and has considered staging false terrorist attacks in the past (even to the point of killing innocent people) in order to gain public support for a war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
If the US had carried out this plan and people were angered by it, would that make them "America-hating leftists"?
We deserve a better government, and Ron Paul is our only hope.
both parties are hijacked and moving towards fascism than anything else.
its certainly not moving towards the ideals and principles the founding fathers wrote about and implemented into some of the greatest documents ever written.
bunch of fakes posing as liberal/conservative when they are neither. but nevermind that sheep fall for the corporate owned media propaganda hook line and sinker.
now we have a basterdized corrupt government that has its way with the world and despite massive propaganda campaign and group thinking sheep the US has its way with people here in the US as well.
constitution alert level
"its just a damned piece of paper"-GWB
all this bullcrap I here about being patriotic. what in hell is less patriotic than basterdizing the constitution? oh its convenient when you want guns or want to act like some big bad free speaking powertripping glutton. someone else speaks out oh know thats unpatriotic. you dont have a view point,widom or knowledge. logic is not everything and rehtoric and propaganda is just that.
you are ignorant,abused and controlled by corporations,banks and government.
screw the left wing / right wing paradigm its a paradigm that divides this nation and makes us week to the powers that corrupt the government so they can gain wealth and power.
America is not the Government. This Government is just as bad if not worse than the Monarchy that lorded over the Colonies. high time for a new Revolution to cut down this Government and get back to what it was all about.
your so controlled you havent a clue what freedom is.
pepped up with politics of fear,propaganda and the wine of Babylon.
2008 will probably be another 2006 cause sheep are too ignorant to look outside the rehtoric and propaganda and think for themselves.
divided up pitted against each other. freedom,liberty,rights restricted meanwhile the government has granted privileges and immunity to those in the government and corporations with government contracts.
A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
Thomas Jefferson
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it.
Thomas Jefferson
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson
Every generation needs a new revolution.
Thomas Jefferson
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
Thomas Jefferson
we were attacked on 9/11 yet the event has not been extinguished instead we are held at bay by tyrants that want to milk this country and the war for absolute power to tyranny.
instead of extinguishing Osama we went into Iraq for WMD's and found none. made connections to Al Qaeda that were poor and never substantiated.
bunch of daft fools
A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
James Madison
Ron Paul would hold a revolution that would tear this government a new hole for the people of this country to reclaim what has been taken. own newly manufacture machine guns,short barreled shotguns and rifles and all sorts of stuff that has been banned and restricted except for a privileged class that pays a tax without representation.
thats nothing compared to the rest of the gains.
but you all are a bunch of animals that have been domesticated and caged and fed bull you wouldnt know what the hell to do if one day you found your cage open.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Winston Churchill
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
Winston Churchill
its certainly not moving towards the ideals and principles the founding fathers wrote about and implemented into some of the greatest documents ever written.
bunch of fakes posing as liberal/conservative when they are neither. but nevermind that sheep fall for the corporate owned media propaganda hook line and sinker.
now we have a basterdized corrupt government that has its way with the world and despite massive propaganda campaign and group thinking sheep the US has its way with people here in the US as well.
constitution alert level
"its just a damned piece of paper"-GWB
all this bullcrap I here about being patriotic. what in hell is less patriotic than basterdizing the constitution? oh its convenient when you want guns or want to act like some big bad free speaking powertripping glutton. someone else speaks out oh know thats unpatriotic. you dont have a view point,widom or knowledge. logic is not everything and rehtoric and propaganda is just that.
you are ignorant,abused and controlled by corporations,banks and government.
screw the left wing / right wing paradigm its a paradigm that divides this nation and makes us week to the powers that corrupt the government so they can gain wealth and power.
America is not the Government. This Government is just as bad if not worse than the Monarchy that lorded over the Colonies. high time for a new Revolution to cut down this Government and get back to what it was all about.
your so controlled you havent a clue what freedom is.
pepped up with politics of fear,propaganda and the wine of Babylon.
2008 will probably be another 2006 cause sheep are too ignorant to look outside the rehtoric and propaganda and think for themselves.
divided up pitted against each other. freedom,liberty,rights restricted meanwhile the government has granted privileges and immunity to those in the government and corporations with government contracts.
A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
Thomas Jefferson
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it.
Thomas Jefferson
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson
Every generation needs a new revolution.
Thomas Jefferson
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
Thomas Jefferson
we were attacked on 9/11 yet the event has not been extinguished instead we are held at bay by tyrants that want to milk this country and the war for absolute power to tyranny.
instead of extinguishing Osama we went into Iraq for WMD's and found none. made connections to Al Qaeda that were poor and never substantiated.
bunch of daft fools
A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
James Madison
Ron Paul would hold a revolution that would tear this government a new hole for the people of this country to reclaim what has been taken. own newly manufacture machine guns,short barreled shotguns and rifles and all sorts of stuff that has been banned and restricted except for a privileged class that pays a tax without representation.
thats nothing compared to the rest of the gains.
but you all are a bunch of animals that have been domesticated and caged and fed bull you wouldnt know what the hell to do if one day you found your cage open.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Winston Churchill
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
Winston Churchill
If anyone thinks Ron Paul was wrong, here are the reasons according to Bin Laden himself.
I feel bad saying this but he has many good reasons to be angry with America.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html
I feel bad saying this but he has many good reasons to be angry with America.
Osama Bin Laden said:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html
Oh don't you know? Like Laura nazel voice Ingram says, don't listen to what the terrorists say, they're the enemy. They attacked us because they wanted to attack "freedom" and just hate America because.....they just don't like "freedom". But because we are Americans, we love "freedom" so we have to go kill them.
A little Dubya neocon logic there
b22, just be clear, he has good reasons to be angry with the American policy and government, no good reason to ram planes into buildings.
A little Dubya neocon logic thereb22, just be clear, he has good reasons to be angry with the American policy and government, no good reason to ram planes into buildings.