Rock Island XT22
- Thread starter wmg1299
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stagpanther
New member
A pistol with funky ignition characteristics and is hard to field strip for potential squib check is bad mojo in my book.
How odd. I wonder why they changed things.
Inserting the slide stop on mine is no different than on my Kimbers. I had to go back and check my notes from March 2018:
"The pistol ran almost perfectly, no failures to fire, feed or extract. The slide stop movement is a bit sticky, so slide didn't lock back every time, but that will be an easy fix (polish face of side stop and tip of plunger). All three magazines worked great.
Only used two types of ammo today, CCI Maxi Mag 40gr JHP and Fiocchi 40gr JSP. Best accuracy was from the Fiocchi, easy 1" (10 shot) groups at 20 yards. CCI was only slightly larger. Both shot to point of aim, which surprised and pleased me!"
Slide stop problem on mine was a fairly deep dimple combined with a really stiff spring. Engagement with the magazine follower was good, but the magazine spring just wasn't stout enough to push the slide stop up every time.
Sanded down the face of the slide stop just a wee bit, broke the bottom edge of the dimple with a needle file (touched it up with a bit of cold blue) and took one coil off the plunger spring.
Now locks open every time when hand-cycling... "
Inserting the slide stop on mine is no different than on my Kimbers. I had to go back and check my notes from March 2018:
"The pistol ran almost perfectly, no failures to fire, feed or extract. The slide stop movement is a bit sticky, so slide didn't lock back every time, but that will be an easy fix (polish face of side stop and tip of plunger). All three magazines worked great.
Only used two types of ammo today, CCI Maxi Mag 40gr JHP and Fiocchi 40gr JSP. Best accuracy was from the Fiocchi, easy 1" (10 shot) groups at 20 yards. CCI was only slightly larger. Both shot to point of aim, which surprised and pleased me!"
Slide stop problem on mine was a fairly deep dimple combined with a really stiff spring. Engagement with the magazine follower was good, but the magazine spring just wasn't stout enough to push the slide stop up every time.
Sanded down the face of the slide stop just a wee bit, broke the bottom edge of the dimple with a needle file (touched it up with a bit of cold blue) and took one coil off the plunger spring.
Now locks open every time when hand-cycling... "
stagpanther
New member
There's a roll pin on the bottom of the barrel lug which protrudes out from the bottom of the lug somewhat--that can't be good and I'm going to either drive it in or grind it down. Unless of course it performs some kind of crucial function. ; )
stagpanther
New member
Today went a bit better than yesterday and I actually started to put some bullets on target! I figured out the secret was remove the magazine altogether, move the slide to the rear and lock it, hand insert a cartridge into the chamber, tamp it down with a small ramrod, and then drop the slide on it, my failure to fire rate dropped from around 80% down to only 5%. The failure to eject rate remained around 50%, but I figured that was acceptable since I switched my technique to what I use for muzzleloading my blackpowder rifles.
I decided to take off the spray paint on friction surfaces--which fortunately (unfortunately if you expect a finish that actually lasts) comes off with just one pass of a friction cloth.I also removed the spray paint from the breech face and feed ramp. Notice the step up from the feed ramp into chamber face opening--wonder if that could catch on something like a crimp or case mouth? Hmmmm
The barrel has what appears to be two pressure fittings which in turn ride inside the barrel shroud--so I smoothed them off as well. Here is the barrel muzzle with a mysterious machining line--near as I can figure when they were assembling the gun somebody decided to put a chart of coronavirus cases in the Philippines on the barrel.
PS--the roll pin on the bottom of the barrel lug appears to ride in a slot machined into the frame--which of course it can freely rotate in.
I decided to take off the spray paint on friction surfaces--which fortunately (unfortunately if you expect a finish that actually lasts) comes off with just one pass of a friction cloth.I also removed the spray paint from the breech face and feed ramp. Notice the step up from the feed ramp into chamber face opening--wonder if that could catch on something like a crimp or case mouth? Hmmmm
The barrel has what appears to be two pressure fittings which in turn ride inside the barrel shroud--so I smoothed them off as well. Here is the barrel muzzle with a mysterious machining line--near as I can figure when they were assembling the gun somebody decided to put a chart of coronavirus cases in the Philippines on the barrel.
PS--the roll pin on the bottom of the barrel lug appears to ride in a slot machined into the frame--which of course it can freely rotate in.
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stagpanther
New member
Because they DO NOT want the slide to last shot lock back--God forbid!
This gun--which costs as much as a colt commander--is a piece of garbage.
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stagpanther
New member
Tried one last time today--again no go. The main problem is the cartridges won't feed from the magazine or be extracted by the extractor--other than that a nice gun.
44caliberkid
New member
An interesting read. Some guys have these and are trouble free, but not Stag's. I find it unreasonable that they expect you to shoot 500 rounds through a gun before it works reliably. Also unreasonable to specify nickel plated 22 magnum, which I didn't even know existed. Stores/ gun shops around here keep a minimal stock of 22 WMR, maybe two choices, and it's all brass. Nickel would be an on line order situation. Stag, this might be an opportunity to test Rock Island customer service.
A question, do these have a falling link barrel lock up like a center fire 1911 or just plain blowback? Do they have a polymer magazine or metal?
I have two new Phillipino 1911's that I plan on reviewing soon. When I disassembled and cleaned before firing I couldn't get the take down pin/ slide lock lever back in, on one of them. Took it back to the shop where I bought it and had their gunsmith check it out. He determined the pin and lever relationship were not at a square 90 degrees, slightly bent, "cheap metal", plus there was a smidge of extra material on the part of the lever that pokes into the frame. He had it working in about 10 minutes.
I'd be curious if the manufacturer can make it right.
A question, do these have a falling link barrel lock up like a center fire 1911 or just plain blowback? Do they have a polymer magazine or metal?
I have two new Phillipino 1911's that I plan on reviewing soon. When I disassembled and cleaned before firing I couldn't get the take down pin/ slide lock lever back in, on one of them. Took it back to the shop where I bought it and had their gunsmith check it out. He determined the pin and lever relationship were not at a square 90 degrees, slightly bent, "cheap metal", plus there was a smidge of extra material on the part of the lever that pokes into the frame. He had it working in about 10 minutes.
I'd be curious if the manufacturer can make it right.
stagpanther
New member
It's plain blowback. I already tested customer service--technicians/engineers will not take phone calls--instead you leave your e-mail and they send you a link to a YouTube video. The magazine is metal--but it's easy to see that if the cartridge is not absolutely perfect in dimensions and position in the magazine--it isn't going to feed properly. I've had some goofy messed up guns before--but never one that had a crazy etched line in the barrel at the muzzle. Its really is a joke--I would laugh if I didn't spend around $650 for it.
keep in mind this is the "pro" model which was only recently introduced (though I'm not sure what the difference is between it and the tactical model in their manual).
The specs for nickel plating obviously is to get a reduced friction/higher strength case to have a better chance of getting chambered properly. Because there is so little rim to work with, there's not much room for radiusing or working with the extractor--other reasons why the gun doesn't work with many ammo types. IMO, it's simply an inherent flaw in design concept. Slightest variation in the magazine--like spring pressure--also introduces it's own problems.
keep in mind this is the "pro" model which was only recently introduced (though I'm not sure what the difference is between it and the tactical model in their manual).
The specs for nickel plating obviously is to get a reduced friction/higher strength case to have a better chance of getting chambered properly. Because there is so little rim to work with, there's not much room for radiusing or working with the extractor--other reasons why the gun doesn't work with many ammo types. IMO, it's simply an inherent flaw in design concept. Slightest variation in the magazine--like spring pressure--also introduces it's own problems.
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After my initial post I went ahead and purchased one. The gun was a blast to shoot, but suffered multiple light primer strikes. All of the rounds would fire if I cocked the hammer and tried a second time. I wound up sending the gun back for warranty repair. I was very surprised when Armscor emailed me and said that the gun could not be repaired. Armscor shipped a replacement gun at no cost, but never told me what the actual issue was with the original. The new gun has shot fine so far, but I will wait until I fire at least 1000 rounds through it to make a final determination. I really like the gun, but I worry that the manufacturer has not yet worked out all of the bugs.
stagpanther
New member
Their design suffers the same problem that many PCC's do--the cartridge gets "swatted" in to the chamber from an angled magazine presentation. Here's where the inherent design flaw comes in: the chamber face cannot be radiused/ramped or any other means of assisting the cartridge ingress due to the critical small tolerance of the case rim--which must seal well as well as present something for the extractor to grab.
The gun's barrel is really a floating chamber which is pushed by a plunger and spring in the shroud (which you are guaranteed to lose eventually) to "seal the deal" with the slide face with the firing pin and extractor. The tolerance for a successful firing and extraction is in a thousandth of an inch or less would be my guess. The whole reliability factor for the gun boils down to using exactly the right cartridge with exactly the right tolerances being consistent with all the components. The quality of engineering just isn't there to support that consistently the way I see it--obviously not on my gun anyway.
The gun's barrel is really a floating chamber which is pushed by a plunger and spring in the shroud (which you are guaranteed to lose eventually) to "seal the deal" with the slide face with the firing pin and extractor. The tolerance for a successful firing and extraction is in a thousandth of an inch or less would be my guess. The whole reliability factor for the gun boils down to using exactly the right cartridge with exactly the right tolerances being consistent with all the components. The quality of engineering just isn't there to support that consistently the way I see it--obviously not on my gun anyway.
stagpanther
New member
Did they make you pay for any of the process? Their warranty leaves it open as to what they may or may not bill you for.
stagpanther
New member
Mine does that too, along with a host of other failures. The magazine sticks up high enough that the spent case is dragged across the top of the next cartridge in the magazine--sometimes the ejector gets it out--often times it doesn't on my gun; so it remains jammed atop the magazine and the next cartridge gets wedged by the slide up against the barrel--that's how that dent in the case comes about. I took the firing pin out on my gun yesterday and looked it over--I don't think anything is wrong with the firing pin itself--it has more to do with proper chambering of whatever the cartridge is. If I individually hand feed each cartridge into the chamber and drop the slide on it it will usually go bang. The quality of machining and finishing on my gun is no where near the value of what they charge for the gun IMO.
Armscor emailed a pre-paid shipping label and did not charge anything for the replacement. It took about 8 weeks to receive the replacement. I would have preferred for the gun I purchased to have been in working condition from the factory, but the company deserves some credit for living up to their warranty obligations.
stagpanther
New member
I just sent it off--be interesting to see what happens.
Methinks that if someone offers me an XT22 to buy I'll run away as fast as I can and as far as I can.
I have found what seems to be a pretty consistent consensus "out there" (if you look at enough articles and reviews) that Rock Island guns seem to be of lesser quality than Metroarms guns (both made in the Philippines). I have a couple of Metroarms guns and they are both OUTSTANDING, at a quality level for guns at least twice their prices from the likes of Springfield, Browning, Ruger, Kimber and others. Their Baby Rock is an example. There are a couple of honest reviews out there that say they are not happy with the performance of the Baby Rock but really really like the Llama MicroMax made by Metroarms and sold via Eagle Imports. I bought the Micromax and love it to death.
Before that I got a Metroarms Ameirican Classic II 45ACP 1911 and loved it as well out of the box. I loved it enough to spend nearly a grand upgrading it with Wilson Combat parts all hand-fitted by the most highly-recommended 1911 specialist gunsmith I could find. The results are super. If our world really tuns into the brown smelly stuff with street battles unpredictably erupting all over the place (as it very well might soon given current events), this is the gun I will have on my belt.
I have found what seems to be a pretty consistent consensus "out there" (if you look at enough articles and reviews) that Rock Island guns seem to be of lesser quality than Metroarms guns (both made in the Philippines). I have a couple of Metroarms guns and they are both OUTSTANDING, at a quality level for guns at least twice their prices from the likes of Springfield, Browning, Ruger, Kimber and others. Their Baby Rock is an example. There are a couple of honest reviews out there that say they are not happy with the performance of the Baby Rock but really really like the Llama MicroMax made by Metroarms and sold via Eagle Imports. I bought the Micromax and love it to death.
Before that I got a Metroarms Ameirican Classic II 45ACP 1911 and loved it as well out of the box. I loved it enough to spend nearly a grand upgrading it with Wilson Combat parts all hand-fitted by the most highly-recommended 1911 specialist gunsmith I could find. The results are super. If our world really tuns into the brown smelly stuff with street battles unpredictably erupting all over the place (as it very well might soon given current events), this is the gun I will have on my belt.
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The newest issue of Handguns by Guns and Ammo came in the mail yesterday, and it contained a review of the XT-22. As an owner of the gun who has followed this thread closely, I was surprised to see that the reviewer raved about how well the gun functioned with multiple types of ammo. I suppose there is a chance that Rock Island/Armscor has really worked out all of the bugs in the newer models. However, the review mainly just confirmed my level of distrust in gun magazines.
stagpanther
New member
Mine IS the newest model of the XT22. Maybe my gun is one of those lemons which always seem to find their way to me. I've seen it over and over with new models of guns and cartridges that in the end most of the R&D testing is performed by the unsuspecting public that buys on the bleeding edge--like me--with the unreasonable expectation that they are getting what they read in all the hype. Increasingly it seems that volume churning is the name of the game.
I've seen it over and over with new models of guns and cartridges that in the end most of the R&D testing is performed by the unsuspecting public that buys on the bleeding edge--like me--with the unreasonable expectation that they are getting what they read in all the hype. Increasingly it seems that volume churning is the name of the game.
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jetinteriorguy
New member
I have an RIA 1911 in 9mm that is one of the nicest guns I own. No rattles, nice and tight lock up. Everything is nicely fitted, runs flawlessly with any ammo I’ve fed it as long as I use good mags made for 9mm. It has a very nice trigger and is as accurate as any handgun I’ve ever owned. It also has a conversion barrel/recoil spring for .22 TCM, that had problems. I contacted RIA, within the hour I had a shipping label. I boxed it up, sent it off and less than two weeks later it was back in my hands at no cost to me. It had a new .22 TCM barrel and spring and had been ‘tuned’ whatever that means. So far the .22 TCM has functioned flawlessly. I purchased this gun used and RIA was aware of this since I originally informed them of this. All in all I’d have to say I’m pretty impressed, at least in my experience with this particular gun.