Robber's gun wasn't loaded, so clerk shouldn't have shot him. Huh?

Proper self-defense etiquite (sp):

"Before I shoot you I just want to know if your gun is loaded, too!"

That'll be the day...

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
Sheeeeeeeesh! :mad:

Here was my reply on their board:
___________________________________________
Re: Man's crime tinges mourning for family
Posted by: Blueyedog (209.43.54.223)
Posted on: 2/13/00 - 09:36 a.m.

I cannot believe a story written like this was actually published. This story is actually suggesting that victims now ask to see if a gun is loaded before defending themselves. If someone comes into your store or your home to rob you, they aren't there with 'good intentions'. Obviously the victim's safety and well-being are of no concern to them. Pointing any kind of a firearm at someone is an invitation to be shot. I personally am not going to stop and ask whether or not the firearm is loaded. In my opinion, once the muzzle of a firearm is aimed at me there is intent to harm and my life is in danger. I'm certainly not going to stand there and wait to find out if the firearm is loaded.

quote:
"And in a city where some residents are willing to use guns for self-protection, the story told by Grant's family suggests not all robbers are as menacing as they look."

I think perhaps if the author of this story was staring down the barrel of the firearm in question here, they would find that this robber was definately as menacing as he looked.

Posted in response to the Jacksonville.com story Man's crime tinges mourning for family
 
Well, they just needed money to start their life on the right track.
I wonder, did the kid approach the family for money to "help straighten hi life out"?
No mention of that in the interview, but I think, a vital part of the equation here.

The media labeled pro-gun professor was the only one who seems to have a grasp on the national situation mentioned in the byline.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Americans use guns to protect themselves more than 2 million times per year, according to Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminology professor.

"The main thing that research has indicated is that it's both effective and common," Kleck said.

Kleck, an advocate for defensive gun use, said the use of guns for self-protection rarely results in bloodshed, so incidents are seldom reported to authorities. For example, a clerk might display a gun if the clerk suspects that someone in the store is plotting a robbery.
[/quote]

A sawed off rifle, who's rifle, and sawed off how far? To the point of illegality? Who's accountable for that one? The store owner?

Another product of a decaying society, and a broken home.

Best Regards,
Don


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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited February 13, 2000).]
 
"Joe Patrick, 24, who supervised both Grant and Franklin when they worked at McDonald's on U.S. 1 in northwest Jacksonville, doesn't blame Prime Stop staff for what happened, but he's concerned about a hard-line attitude that seems to be pervasive."

Well, that hard-line attitude is, unfortunately, quite logical. I'm concerned that criminals are so dense. Maybe the public school system should do a better job? If they can't teach kids to read, perhaps they could at least mention what can happen when someone commits a crime with a gun?

I find the article wishy-washy. Goes back and forth, essentially accepting the logic of having to kill a kid holding a rifle and robbing a store. But, emotionally smaltzy and drifting as the author tries to help us see another 'good' boy gone bad. Gee, if he'd only gotten this rent money, then everything would have been alright ...

Nah. More horse puckey.

It's a shame someone died, it's a shame everyone involved was traumatized, and it's a shame people still commit violent crimes. People, families and communities need to take responsibility for their behaviors, and the actions they tolerate.
 
The incident in which this young man was killed is probably only the last dramatic tip of a mini crimine spree by him and his buddies. And wouldn't they have needed rent money next month as well, and the next month too, etc., ect.
 
Well, I just spent an interesting (and frustrating) half-hour with this paper's response board.

In my usual long-winded manner, I posted:
"I guess the reporter, Mark Reynolds, was trying to strike a balance here between smarmy empathy and the hard facts. He missed it though, with the statement, "And in a city where some residents are willing to use guns for self-protection . . .".
Against an armed robber, what would he prefer? If you are unarmed, you are depending upon the mercy and sanity of a person who thinks that life-threatening violence is a resonable method of raising money.

Then we have, "the story told by Grant's family suggests not all robbers are as menacing as they look."
Ye Gods, the Westside merchant was staring down the barrel of a sawed off rifle! From personal experience, I will tell you that when you're on the wrong end of a gun, that barrel looks as big at a garbage can. The robber could look like Jesus Christ and I would still shoot him in this kind of scenario.

"His intentions were not to hurt anyone," said Grant's father, Warren L. Grant Sr., who said his son was trying to get money to pay his rent. "That was the motive behind it."
Ye Gods again! Are we now expected to have ESP in these situations? When has the seriousness of pointing a gun at someone because you need money become conditional upon YOUR need?

As a parent, I allow that the father's grief gave birth to these mind-boggling statements.

On the other hand, we have this gem, "Mr. Patrick . . . doesn't blame Prime Stop staff for what happened, but he's concerned about a hard-line attitude that seems to be pervasive."!!
If Mr. Patrick ever stared down a gun barrel and wondered if he was going to die, I suspect he might take a "hard-line attitude" himself. The old phrase "A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged." comes to mind."

When I tried to post, I got this reply: "Error. Your message appears to contain language that our users might find offensive. Please clean up your message and re-post it."
CLEAN IT UP?? Nothing was highlighted, and even when I changed "shoot him" to "fire", I still got the same message.

So, I wrote the editor: "I tried posting a comment about the Feb. 13 article "Man's crime tinges mourning for family".

Here is what I tried to post: [post above]

I got the following message: [error message above].

Since I quoted some passages from the article, I'm at a loss as to where I've
erred. Please enlighten me via email.

Then I go to the message board and read this
gem from J. Busch: "The NRA is to blame for this mans death. When are we going to wake up Amerika?!"

I replied: "The NRA is to blame for this??? Please enlighten us just how. "Amerika" will surely be spelled that way if it's citizens are disarmed. Evidently it is spelled "La-La Land" where Mr. Busch lives."

I got the "clean up your post" message again.

Instead of "Oatka" I used my real name, and that message FINALLY went through. Evidently "Oatka" offends the Florida Times Union [in more ways than one :)]

------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.

[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited February 13, 2000).]
 
This article, written by a typical anti-gun leftist of the media, is clearly constructed for the average mis-informed (about guns)reader to infer that guns are evil and that the criminal, really an O.K. person when all is said and done, is the victim of both society in general and the evil that guns bring to society. I would hope that this mentality is a minority one in Florida and that the average reader is able to see through such an obvious leftist political statement!
 
"another one bites the dust", good and good riddance they stopped the jr hood from becoming a professional hood......
...That fast food manager needs to wise up, how often have we heard of fastfood/restraunts/convience markets being the scene of shooting's, maybe he'll rethink his position when they've led him to a back room, put him on his knees or face down on the floor and reliazation sets in that he's gonna die, it will most likely be to late att.----but I gurantee ya there'll be someone who says that the people that shot him werent that bad, they were good folk...sheesh....fubsy.
 
OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD
When a LEO dies in the line of duty it is customary to express regret at the loss.
When a firefighter dies battling a blaze we do the same.
There are several professions where the ultimate sacrifice is sometimes made. While we usually honor those who paid the price, somewhere in the back of our mind there exists the knowledge that this individual knew the risks. The possibility of endangerment came with the territory.
Why should criminals be afforded the benefit of the doubt?
Why should any potential victim have to ascertain the motives of his assailant?
His family claims that he didn't deserve to die.
Death during the commission of a crime is an
OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD
 
I can see it now! Some liberal Florida politician will want to require rules before defending one self. Maybe they can write them up and post them at all business registers.

BEFORE USING A FIREARM TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM AN ARMED ROBBER, THE STATE OF FLORIDA REQUIRES THAT YOU DETERMINE THE FOLLOWING;

1. IS THE ROBBER "REALLY" A GOOD PERSON MAKING A SIMPLE MISTAKE?

2. IS THE ROBBER TO YOUNG TO KNOW THAT WHAT HE OR SHE IS DOING IS WRONG?

3. DOES THE ROBBER COME FROM A DISADVANTAGED BACKROUND?

4. DOES THE ROBBER HAVE A PRESSING NEED TO STEAL YOUR MONEY?

5. IS THE ROBBERS WEAPON UNLOADED OR OTHERWISE INCAPABLE OF WORKING PROPERLY?

6. HAS THE ROBBER SIMPLY MADE BAD CHOICES IN LIFE?

IF THE ANSWER TO ANY OF THE ABOVE QUESTIONS IS YES, YOU ARE FORBIDDEN BY FLORIDA STATE LAW FROM USING DEADLY FORCE TO DEFEND YOURSELF OR OTHERS. PLEASE DIAL 911 AT ONCE!

HAVE A NICE DAY!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cactus:

BEFORE USING A FIREARM TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM AN ARMED ROBBER, THE STATE OF FLORIDA REQUIRES THAT YOU DETERMINE THE FOLLOWING;

1. IS THE ROBBER "REALLY" A GOOD PERSON MAKING A SIMPLE MISTAKE?

2. IS THE ROBBER TO YOUNG TO KNOW THAT WHAT HE OR SHE IS DOING IS WRONG?

3. DOES THE ROBBER COME FROM A DISADVANTAGED BACKROUND?

4. DOES THE ROBBER HAVE A PRESSING NEED TO STEAL YOUR MONEY?

5. IS THE ROBBERS WEAPON UNLOADED OR OTHERWISE INCAPABLE OF WORKING PROPERLY?

6. HAS THE ROBBER SIMPLY MADE BAD CHOICES IN LIFE?

IF THE ANSWER TO ANY OF THE ABOVE QUESTIONS IS YES, YOU ARE FORBIDDEN BY FLORIDA STATE LAW FROM USING DEADLY FORCE TO DEFEND YOURSELF OR OTHERS. PLEASE DIAL 911 AT ONCE!

HAVE A NICE DAY!

[/quote]

Perhaps the State of florida in conjunction with this fine newspaper could fund and maintain a program that pays the rent for people that sign a waiver stating that armed robbery is the only way left to get their rent money .



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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER
 
Cactus,

Excellent list!
It may become reality some day... :eek:


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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
My two cents posted:
**************************
It's always a tragedy when a young life is snuffed out early, but I'm at a total loss how this is the NRA's fault. And yes, perhaps we do need to wake up. If armed store owners and operators became the norm rather than the exception, seems to me there would be more people who "just needed rent money" giving serious thought about appropriate ways to raise it.

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
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