Road Rage Today. What would you do?

Dipper.

I was referring to the obligation to the law. I always look at force as a last resort. Lawfully of course. I myself had indeed considered your examples prior to my post. Not to consider them would be irresponsible and I know you didn't think I am. :D

Good warning for those that think shoot first think later!
 
This very likely will see you visited by police, as well as losing your concealed permit. Again, varies by state...
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Uhh...no. His primary escape route is blocked and the BG is closing in from a range of a few meters (from the time he came around his van and became visible). You have a decent argument that you felt your life was in danger at that time. An uneducated cop may charge you, here in VA you'd get off easily, could probably talk to the prosecutor's office without a lawyer and get it dropped.
 
We had the same thing happen between two women drivers here in Alabama. IIRC, The offending driver ("driver #1) forced the other driver to the side of the road, then approached and became verbaly abusive. The defending driver (#2), feeling threatened, shot and killed driver #1. Driver 2 was convicted and went to jail. :confused:
 
The offending driver ("driver #1) forced the other driver to the side of the road, then approached and became verbaly abusive. The defending driver (#2), feeling threatened, shot and killed driver #1. Driver 2 was convicted and went to jail.
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Apparently the prosecutor and the grand jury and the real jury thought "verbally abusive" was not sufficient threat that a reasonable person would feel in danger of their life. She should have tried to escape (maybe she did), and waited to shoot until #1 broke a window or something.

This is very easy to say in hindsight and from a distance.
 
Uhh...no. His primary escape route is blocked and the BG is closing in from a range of a few meters (from the time he came around his van and became visible). You have a decent argument that you felt your life was in danger at that time.
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You talking about the OPs scenario? As the driver being confronted, you would have the option of backing away and leaving before needing to use force.
 
This very likely will see you visited by police, as well as losing your concealed permit. Again, varies by state...
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I groan every time I read one of these "tidbits" of wisdom.

Ever been a cop? I have, and I can count on one hand the number of calls I--or any other cop I ever knew--went out to find a "gun-brandishing" suspect when it was an obvious road rage case, as described by the dispatcher.

DISPATCH: Nine one one, what's you emergency?

DODGE VAN DRIVER: Some idiot in a Toyota almost ran me off the road. When I did a 180 and chased him down to raise hell and forced him off the road and ran up to his window yelling and cussing, the little SOB pulled a GUN on me! You need to go arrest that guy!

DISPATCH: Your name, sir?

Incident over.

Secondly, unless the Dodge Driver (or whoever) gets a positive license tag, your chances of being found by the police--especially in a metro area--are just about zilch.

Thirdly, in order and priority of calls that a cop is ALREADY in line for, chasing ghosts doesn't warrant a whole lot of urgency.

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Uhh...no. His primary escape route is blocked and the BG is closing in from a range of a few meters (from the time he came around his van and became visible). You have a decent argument that you felt your life was in danger at that time.
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You talking about the OPs scenario? As the driver being confronted, you would have the option of backing away and leaving before needing to use force.
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Sorry, but you don't always have the option of "backing away and leaving" as easily as it sounds, or as easy as your local part-time cop/CCL instructor wants you to believe.

Not easy to back up on a crowded, fast-moving highway or interstate--even less easy when you're scared for your well-being.

Escape is not always a readily and instantly available option (think SERE school).

And I'm with my shipmate in VA--I'd be too embarassed about my lousy driving skills. Which is why in my first post, I stated that I'd be apologizing profusely to the Dodge driver and offering to buy him a new pair of underwear since it was my fault his probably got soiled.

Now, if I do absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever and some jerkoff pulls this kind of stunt, different game on the wrong playground and definitely the wrong playmate.

Jeff
 
Well it figures my state, Virginia, has no castle doctrine listed! I thought Virginia was part of the Old South and would be for protecting ones home and family. I just do not have respect for that, my Ranger Training doctrine taught me to NEVER retreat and If someone is in my home trying to kill my wife or family, they will be dead, very swiftly. I'll go to prison with a smile on my face for these communist laws and bureaucrats if it means saving innocent lives.
 
I groan every time I read one of these "tidbits" of wisdom.
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Why? Does it make sense to you to point the "business end of a G19" at anyone when you don't intend to shoot?

If you do not fear for your life, you have no business pointing a gun at anyone, period, unless you're LEO in the line of duty.
 
Well it figures my state, Virginia, has no castle doctrine listed! I thought Virginia was part of the Old South and would be for protecting ones home and family. I just do not have respect for that, my Ranger Training doctrine taught me to NEVER retreat and If someone is in my home trying to kill my wife or family, they will be dead, very swiftly. I'll go to prison with a smile on my face for these communist laws and bureaucrats if it means saving innocent lives.
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I believe the list is inaccurate. The last I knew, Massachusetts was the last state that believed you had to retreat from your own home in the face of criminal activity. That state changed its law on the matter several years ago.

Ever been a cop? I have, and I can count on one hand the number of calls I--or any other cop I ever knew--went out to find a "gun-brandishing" suspect when it was an obvious road rage case, as described by the dispatcher.

DISPATCH: Nine one one, what's you emergency?

DODGE VAN DRIVER: Some idiot in a Toyota almost ran me off the road. When I did a 180 and chased him down to raise hell and forced him off the road and ran up to his window yelling and cussing, the little SOB pulled a GUN on me! You need to go arrest that guy!

DISPATCH: Your name, sir?

Incident over.
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In MY agency, it wouldn't be over. Dispatchers cannot dispose of a complaint over the phone. An officer would be dispatched and a report taken. There are three sides to every story, and for all you know, we'll get a call from the other party in short order. That happens.As to your point about about the plate, you are correct...no plate, and it wont go far.

Like you, I have had exactly one road rage case in twenty years that actually went "that far"...and it was the gun guys fault.

Sorry, but you don't always have the option of "backing away and leaving" as easily as it sounds, or as easy as your local part-time cop/CCL instructor wants you to believe.
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It was described as having a primary means of escape blocked. That is straight ahead. The driver is not blocked in on the rear. You can back up.

I have 20 years on the Job, BTW.
 
Does it make sense to you to point the "business end of a G19" at anyone when you don't intend to shoot?

If you do not fear for your life, you have no business pointing a gun at anyone, period...
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TX law allows a person to display a gun to create the apprehension that he will use deadly force if required. That tactic is not considered the same as actually using deadly force, and may be legally employed when force (as opposed to deadly force) is legally justified.

An example of a situation where force would be justified under TX law would be when a person: "...was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied...vehicle...[OR]... was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's...vehicle..."

In TX, at least, if someone is trying to break into and extricate you from your vehicle unlawfully and using force to do so, you would be well within your rights to show him that you have a firearm.

By the way, it appears that Son of Vlad Tepes was right in that at least some of the new TX Castle Doctrine applies to occupied vehicles.
 
By the way, it appears that Son of Vlad Tepes was right in that at least some of the new TX Castle Doctrine applies to occupied vehicles.
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I THINK. . . the law went into effect first of this year--states that one's vehicle (car, boat, airplane, RV) is an extension of their domicile, and just as one does not have a duty to retreat in one's home, nor does one have a duty to retreat if they have a legal right to be where they are at, doing what they are doing.

This is the simplified, non-lawyer version given to me by an AUSA I know in Fort Worth.

Why? Does it make sense to you to point the "business end of a G19" at anyone when you don't intend to shoot?

If you do not fear for your life, you have no business pointing a gun at anyone, period, unless you're LEO in the line of duty.
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First, you're assuming that the person brandishing the Glock 19 doesn't intend to shoot, which is a dangerous assumption because the person with the Glock very well may be fearing for their life, well-being or safety.

Another consideration is that it might be better to brandish a weapon at some loudmouth road rage bully and advise him to "haul ass" rather than have it escalate to a genuine physical confrontation in which the bully might just get his butt stomped into the ground and hurt very badly.

REGARDLESS OF ANY "WHAT IF" SCENARIOS that can be dreamed up . . . getting all riled up in these idiotic road-rage incidents is just plain stupid. As someone else wisely pointed out, it takes two to make an incident--and I sure as hell am not going to willingly play along.

Jeff
 
As someone else wisely pointed out, it takes two to make an incident--and I sure as hell am not going to willingly play along.
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Thats the scream like a girl technique except in an adult fashion :)

WildturntheothercheekAlaska TM
 
The first CHL shooting in TX was a road rage incident that resulted in the death of an unarmed man who was punching the CHL holder.

The CHL holder was acquitted.
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When you say "acquitted" I'm assuming that you mean he was in fact arrested by the police and had charges filed against him by the DA, and was acquitted in court(?)
 
This very likely will see you visited by police, as well as losing your concealed permit. Again, varies by state...
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Well, once visited by police, I will explain to them the situation and why I presented my firearm. I would also state, I was in fear for losing my life and or being seriously harmed. I don't know what this screaming maniac will do? What is his past? Did he have a bad day at work? Is he dangerous? Did he just commit a violent crime? I don't have time to figure it out and I don't have time to question this offender. I can state, if some maniac causes me to stop in the road and blocks my escape, then exits his vehicle and aggressively heads for my drivers door, I know he is not handing me a Christmas Card. I can also tell you, he is in no state of mind to have a calm discussion. Sometimes, the end of a 9mm barrel does the talking and the offender will get the message. If he is smart he will back off and allow me to get away.

Why would I lose my Texas Concealed Weapons permit if I am put into a situation where I am defending my life or my family?

Again, varies by state...
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Does it? So you are saying I don't have the right to defend my life in the state I reside? :confused:
 
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In TX I believe the law states that you may display or brandish a weapon under the same circumstances that using force (not DEADLY FORCE) would be legal.

The reaction of the other party would dictate what happens next.

I used to believe that everyone has a duty to retreat, no matter what your laws say but if someone is threatening your well being I now believe that you need to know the laws and use every thing at your legal disposal to defend yourself.

I see people saying that people who break into your house are probably not there to bring flowers...the idiot running up to my car window because I did something or he perceives I did something is probably not going to shake my hand and ask my name. A threat is a threat, just know the laws and what you can and can't do and go from there.
 
Why? Does it make sense to you to point the "business end of a G19" at anyone when you don't intend to shoot?
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It makes perfect sense. If I am drawing my weapon when I see a crazy man charging toward my car door, then I do intend to shoot to protect my life and my family's.

If you do not fear for your life, you have no business pointing a gun at anyone, period, unless you're LEO in the line of duty.
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What? Policy, Procedure, and Training dictates when its ok for LEO's to draw their duty side arms. This is done in certain situations where danger is emanate to the LEO in felony traffic stops, serving high risk warrants, or investigations.

In the state of Texas, as an honest citizen, I don't have to articulate to the same level as an LEO when using my firearm is a deadly force situation.
 
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