Road Rage or just jerk?

There is no argument that can change the letter of the law
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those letters make words and words in the law have a particular meaning as determined by the courts.

words in the law, elements of a particular charge may not mean exactly what you believe them to mean. Its not always as easy as common language. That's why case law is so important. I am sure that this exact issue has been brought before

Again, I wont speak to what TN law means or doesn't mean but I have some doubts that what you are using as an example of an "imminent threat of bodily harm", actually is.
 
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briandg, “imminent bodily harm” traditionally requires you show ability, opportunity, and jeopardy such that a reasonable person fears imminent harm. I’m not seeing any evidence of this in the original post. What factors do you think demonstrate this?

As for calling the police or not in grey situations, I think it is important to listen to your gut. I believe a lot of the times what we perceive as a gut feeling is an observation your brain has made but not necessarily processed fully. So when you get that feeling, it is important to listen to it or, at a minimum, give some thought as to what observations may be causing that feeling.

Having said that, unless you want to live in a police state, it isn’t practical to go around calling the police every time someone gets angry with you in public. And if you do call police, be ready for the reality that there may be a major difference between how they solve the problem and how you think the problem should be resolved.
 
briandg, “imminent bodily harm” traditionally requires you show ability, opportunity, and jeopardy such that a reasonable person fears imminent harm. I’m not seeing any evidence of this in the original post. What factors do you think demonstrate this?
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That is a very traditional standard and one that I personally use. I think a lot of people get all caught up in the emotion of the adversity they face and do not think things through. I did not see anything that I would personally recognize as actual JEOPARDY when I read the OP. People have a right to feel any way that want about a particular situation but the "reasonableness" of their feelings is often times what is in question.
 
"People have a right to feel any way that want about a particular situation but the "reasonableness" of their feelings is often times what is in question." (Fireforged)

"briandg, “imminent bodily harm” traditionally requires you show ability, opportunity, and jeopardy such that a reasonable person fears imminent harm. I’m not seeing any evidence of this" , and "unless you want to live in a police state, it isn’t practical to go around calling the police every time someone gets angry with you in public. And if you do call police, be ready for the reality that there may be a major difference between how they solve the problem and how you think the problem should be resolved."(BartRoberts)

Exactly! I was hoping someone else would reiterate what I was trying to say and reword it for Briandg. Fireforged and Mr. Robert's did a fine job!
 
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Ton said:
As a police officer, I would advise that you call the police any time you reasonably determine somebody is following you.

...

I can tell you that in my state, there would be more than enough reasonable suspicion to make a traffic stop on a vehicle that was following somebody for the purpose of conducting an investigation. Especially if I actually located the described vehicle still following the victim, since there would be several minutes between the time the call was made to when I arrived, and thus plenty of opportunities for the suspect to stop following the victim. Law violations to be investigated would include disorderly conduct, stalking, aggressive driving, and assault.
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Thanks for the perspective from the LE point of view.
 
and committed a second incident of misdemeanor assault by yelling at him, and went a bit farther than just calling him a jerk.
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Legality aside, if I call 911 because someone yells at me, I fully expect to get flamed and blasted by everyone, not only that, I will have my mancard revoked for at least 90 days.

If you can't handle someone yelling at you, and insist you are the victim of a 'misdemeanor assault', then maybe you might be the one who winds up drawing your gun on someone who you believe is about to kill you, except they were only extending their arm up to try and give you a high five.

:rolleyes:
 
Someone yelling at you is one thing. Someone following you around town in a car is, to me, another.

I'm not particularly worried about my "man card". If I haven't done enough in this point in my life to prove to myself my own masculinity then that's my problem and I couldn't care less about what someone else thinks. I'll add that being overly concerned about masculinity and then carrying a firearm seems like a potential problem in the making.

It seems to me there are two arguments here. Is it advisable to call the police in a potential road rage situation and is road rage itself as discussed in some examples a crime? It seems on the latter part of the discussion much of that will depend on your local laws as well as the degree to which a threat has been conveyed. It seems on the first part a number of former police officers have said calling was, in their opinion, acceptable if not prudent. That to me is what I care about. I wouldn't call for someone yelling at me and giving me the finger. The guy following me around town is another matter. Even if I call and the answer is, "Sorry you're on your own," then I at least have a record of having called the police and attempting to convey a potential problem. That to me is worth something. I've dealt with my local police enough to know that calling when I see something brewing isn't regarded as problematic. Obviously that will depend on your department.

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If you can't handle someone yelling at you, and insist you are the victim of a 'misdemeanor assault', then maybe you might be the one who winds up drawing your gun on someone who you believe is about to kill you, except they were only extending their arm up to try and give you a high five.
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I agree with your point regarding a seemingly coiled spring mentality. My concern would be that some people may deem darn near any form of hostile adversity as an 11 on a 0-10 danger meter and potentially meet it with an improperly measured response. This tends to happen with situations where emotion clouds thoughtful reasoning.

Coiled Spring Mentality: This is where a persons general "reaction" to adverse conditions tends to resemble that of a coiled spring which is either fully compressed or fully sprung. The suggestion being that a response is essentially all or nothing, there is no real sense of degree or measurement.
 
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I've been followed before. Never thought to myself 'I better call the police'. I just led them on a fun scenic route.

I've been subjected to small incidents of road rage. To me, someone yelling is something I can handle. They can even say they want to kill me. Its just words. If they try to hit my car with their vehicle, that's where the line has been crossed, in my humble opinion. If they brandish a firearm, the lines crossed into something I can then call the police about.

Its not really about 'masculinity'. I put that in for comedic relief. However, if a person thinks they have to call police because someone yells at them, and labels it 'misdemeanor assault', that's just a little bit of a waste of time. Will the person who yelled get arrested? No. Will they even get a ticket? Probably not. Will it change their behavior in the future? Not likely. Is it even a crime to follow someone? Please, someone cite your local statutes or laws stating that it is a crime to follow another driver.
 
Spacemanspiff; "However, if a person thinks they have to call police because someone yells at them, and labels it 'misdemeanor assault', that's just a little bit of a waste of time. Will the person who yelled get arrested? No. Will they even get a ticket? Probably not. Will it change their behavior in the future? Not likely. Is it even a crime to follow someone? Please, someone cite your local statutes or laws stating that it is a crime to follow another driver."

Exactly my point. Think how often we inadvertently make a mistake driving and someone honks or flips the bird. I can't imagine calling the police every time that happens, or because some hothead tailgates me on I95 and won't pass. Yes, the Police will respond and investigate "legitimate" road rage incidents (actual threats conveyed, vehicle collisions, etc.), but where do we draw the line pertaining to labeling every little action as "ROAD RAGE" and calling 911? At what point do we become the politically correct little boy who became triggered and cried Wolf? :D

And we have an LEO (Ton), who advocated;
"As a police officer, I would advise that you call the police any time you reasonably determine somebody is following you. Don't worry about non emergency, just call 911".

Unfortunately, without applying common sense, which many in modern society lack, that well intentioned advice can and will easily be misconstrued and abused. The result is wasting precious tax dollars and understaffed / over strained emergency resources on BS calls because someone had their "feelings" hurt over the middle finger, or the person behind them just happens to be traveling in the same direction. :rolleyes: Ignoring / defusing the offending party, barring any REAL immediate threat (verbal threats of harm, weapon displayed, vehicle bumping, etc.), is perhaps ones best action, as the OP demonstrated.
 
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Again, nothing I stated said call the police if someone yells at you. I explicitly stated the opposite. If you don't want to call the police you always have the option of, wait for it, not calling the police. I'm merely explaining what I would do. As for wasting tax dollars, well they're my dollars. I feel okay calling. I don't advise for the lowest common denominator. Just because some people can't apply common sense doesn't mean all of us can't.

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Right, but seeing as I am one of those people in the general audience, I'll give my general response ;).

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sigxder said:
So last Sunday I was coming home from a friends house. Came up to a four way stop. An SUV in front of me was broken down in the turn lane. Got a green arrow and went around him. Noticed an old Infiniti behind me. Just didn't feel right. I made several turns and he stayed behind me.

Knew I was being followed by then. Went past my house because I didn't know want him to know where I lived. Pulled into a gas station with a store with lots of people. I was legally carrying my Glock 19 and pepper spray. So I figure I will go in the store so their will be witnesses and cover if I need it.

Well he pulls up and it's like "oh crap here we go". So he starts hollering that I couldn't make the turn I did several miles back. I explained to him that the SUV was stalled and I had a green arrow. I asked if he was law enforcement and he said no and just went on telling me I wasn't above the law. Blah, blah, blah.

Told him in a firm but controlled voice that I didn't have time for this.

Went into the little store keeping an eye on him. Moved away from anyone who might be in the line of fire. At no time did I threaten him, curse, argue, or touch a weapon.

He finally just left. So it worked out o.k.. Here is my question. When you are followed by someone and confronted in such a manner what does the law say? Is someone following you like that stalking you? Obvious road rage incident. But what does such action fall under according to the law? Probably should of made a police report. But it turned out alright so I just left. I am in Tennessee by the way. Should I have made a police report? What would such actions be construed as under the law?
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It will have been said already. Call the police IMMEDIATELY. Don’t stop at your house. Stop where witnesses are. You don’t want to shoot anyone. So that is good. I am getting a dash cam for this kind of stuff now. It happens more than you think. But he wasn’t breaking any laws as far as I’m aware.

So why cops? My concern is that he was like that moron who shot the guy over the parking space incident not that long ago. So he was probably packing as well. Some people are total morons. I’d rather involve the police and get listed as the victim first.

My ex gave someone the finger one time when he passed us on a double yellow line (second time she did that). He jammed on brakes and jumped out of the car. I pulled my firearm and had it low down so he couldn’t see. She FREAKED out and I told her...don’t ever instigate. I don’t want to put someone down because he is a blank who couldn’t control himself.


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I wonder why everyone assumes that the OP would have a direct line to the local police cruiser. I think that a call to 911 will start off with the 911 operator trying to determine what the situation may be before notifying a policeman on patrol or calling the SWAT team. They may have questions and even useful advice for the caller. I don't see anything wrong with that.
 
I wonder why everyone assumes that the OP would have a direct line to the local police cruiser. I think that a call to 911 will start off with the 911 operator trying to determine what the situation may be before notifying a policeman on patrol or calling the SWAT team. They may have questions and even useful advice for the caller. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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Im not sure I understand the sarcasm. Its generally assumed that a call to police will begin with a dispatcher/call taker.
 
Whatever you do - don't shoot anyone unless they are shooting at you and even then you have to evade. - Don't call 911 unless it's absolutely necessary. Nothing pi$$e$ cops off more than to get called out over some petty argument or because somebody looks at you wrong. Use common sense and talk your way out of a confrontation. Never rely on a gun to resolve an issue.
 
Whatever you do - don't shoot anyone unless they are shooting at you and even then you have to evade.
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That is not sound advice to give people. You don't wait to have a hot and lethal projectile flying at you to start defending yourself.
 
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