Richmond Man Killed With Own Gun While Open Carrying

I don't think I would ever open carry, but I don't see it as a bad practice. The way I see it there are disadvantages and advantages to both concealed and open carry.

Concealed carry:

Disadvantages:

You need appropriate training to draw a sidearm from concealment.

You need appropriate equipment, such as a smaller gun or a concealment holster.

You have to realize that there is no deterrent effect, because criminals do not know you are armed. You may become a target because the perception is that you don't have a gun.

Advantages:

Element of surprise.

You can carry into places that might hassle an open carrier.

Criminals are less likely to grab your gun before a confrontation starts.

Open carry:

Disadvantages:

You need appropriate training to protect a sidearm from a grab or draw from a retention holster.

You need appropriate equipment, such as a retention holster.

You may become a target because criminals know you have a gun.

Your sidearm is arguably more accessible to criminals.

Advantages:

Some criminals will see you have a gun and avoid you.

Size is less of a factor in selecting a sidearm.

Sidearm is arguably more accessible to you.
 
That incident was very unfortunate; however I don’t want anybody else to get discouraged on open carrying based on that incident. Serpa holster by Black hawk could have avoided this situation.
 
Serpas need extensive training in use - does the open carry civilian do that? There are very unfortunate accidents with these under stress which may or may not be prevented by training. We've had two shoot themselves with such in local matches.

Thus, strapping on a Serpa without much, much practice (and does Oscar Open-Carry do that) is a tad risky.
 
@Lost sheep--that is a great idea! I love the idea of deception. Ironically, I suspect this might result in a trumped up "entrapment" charge if someone actually shot a BG that grabbed a decoy.
 
The real lesson to be learned is situational awareness and avoiding Condition White.
Click to expand...

As cold as it sounds the quote is on the money. Just my thought on this along with the above is a way of retention in the holster

Serpas need extensive training in use - does the open carry civilian do that? There are very unfortunate accidents with these under stress which may or may not be prevented by training. We've had two shoot themselves with such in local matches.
Click to expand...

3 here in FLA shot themselves and one was a deputy sheriff. No longer allowed Serpas at our matches.
 
3 here in FLA shot themselves and one was a deputy sheriff. No longer allowed Serpas at our matches.
Click to expand...

Are Glocks banned too? ;)

They should add more materal to the release button. The idea is to keep your finger straight along the side of the holster, but how it is now it's easy to push in on the button and get your finger inside the trigger gaurd when you draw.
 
I will agree that situational awareness and avoiding condition White are of utmost importance wile OC. I live in an open carry state, and persevere to open carry as opposed to going down getting my permit, which I'm sure they would give me. A stubborn American thing. I have lived here since '89 and nary a weapons charge ever for me.

You better not be in condition White while carrying a weapon in any mode. Open carry is precarious and has risks. You must pay attention to whats going on around you. The new laws include brandishing and you can't scare grandma or your life is over with Legal troubles now. This may be a bigger risk (statistically) than being attacked violently. All the have to say it was a black gun, and if yours is dark, guess who's going to jail?

So everyday open carry really means that very few ever get to see it. You never can tell who in a crowd may get terrified at the sight of a weapon being carried, so I have deduced that the prudent course of action is to not let the general populace see it at all, but I make sure that any Policeman that I encounter can easily see it if it looks like we are going to be talking. So far, so good. I find that generally, the older officers are more reasonable calmer individuals, and the younger officers usually get hyped up at the sight of a weapon. I get really scared when younger officer pulls me over because when he feels tension at the sight of the weapon, he usually mods his behavior to the more authoritarianism mode which is...discouraging. I really respect the older officers who are more calm and better at reading people and see me and not just the gun. :)
 
Are Glocks banned too?
Click to expand...

Not yet, but we're workin on it:eek: Our Range Director/owner feels if a LE officer can do it certainly a civilian is capable. Just one less thing to have to be concerned about owning/running/insuring a private range. After all safety is Job 1 !!:cool:
 
open carry

I have always felt that open carry in public is a terrible idea.

If you are in your home, on your property, or in your place of business, that's different.

Just walking around on the street open carrying? Many of the people who do this are attention whores. If you are serious about self defense, get a quality gun, get a good holster, get some quality training, practice frequenty, and carry concealed.

The fact your weapon is concealed is a tactical advantage for you and I believe that it outweighs the potential deterrent effect of open carry.
 
Serpas need extensive training in use - does the open carry civilian do that? There are very unfortunate accidents with these under stress which may or may not be prevented by training. We've had two shoot themselves with such in local matches.

Thus, strapping on a Serpa without much, much practice (and does Oscar Open-Carry do that) is a tad risky.
__________________
Click to expand...

That's not all. John Farnam doesn't allow them in his courses. He cited incidents where the mechanism was jammed up by a twig. I believe they occurred in the more rigorous envirnonment of combat zones.
 
Either way, I thought the story might serve as a good basis for discussion of retention tactics for those who open carry. What might have changed the outcome of this story?
Click to expand...

Yes, but that won't persaude the OC advocates to rethink their position.

There are two things that are obvious about OC.

1. Most criminal elements will stear clear of you, and you're safer in that regard.

2. Some won't and they'll have the tactical advantage if they want to take you down, and you may not see it coming. With those individuals, you're in more danger than ever.

The individual who was murdered was not an intended victim until his gun was spotted by a couple of opportunists.
 
Originally Posted by BlackFeather
So, if I have my license to carry a firearm on duty as a security guard, I'm doing something stupid?

Nate45, what is a credible system?
Click to expand...

NO, some personnel can be assumed to be armed so it may not make much difference if it's CCW or OC. Gun shop owners, Jewelry Store owners, and so on. And, of course, security guards, bank guards, armored car, etc. There are risks associated with the job. People like yourself aren't going to be the victims of some one just passing by where you don't see it coming. And you know that your uniform will attract attention off duty and, I hope, act accordingly.
 
I won't openly carry, simply because things like this can happen. I see it as an invitation to disaster. I believe that if you carry, nobody else should know.
 
Let me repeat my first point for those who missed it: if you open carry and have no training in gun retention skills, especially if you carry in a regular, non-retention holster, you are in Condition White.

Having your head on a swivel does no good when it's simultaneously up your nether regions.

pax
 
I didn't need that image, Pax - yuk!

But it's a good point. I think some folks overestimate their situational awareness and how you can get crowded in real life.
 
Lots of Serpa hate. Odd, I carried them for three tours without an issue. I did practice a lot though. I'd never even heard of people shooting themselves with them till now (although you do get the occasional ND). I think blaming the equipment is kind of like blaming a motorcycle for getting into crashes.

Wearing a gun openly is kind of like wearing lots of bling. Someone will see it eventually and want to snatch it. The results unfortunately are much more fatal.
 
It's easy to say that training trumps bad equipment design but that is a cliche that denies years of human factors work on errors. Bad design facilitates errors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top