Revolver philosophy and reliability vs. semiauto guns

Generally speaking revolvers are a pretty safe bet for the 1st cylinder. After that I've had slightly more issues with revolvers than semi's. The only screws I've had issues with are the ejector rod backing out on S&W revolvers and binding the cylinder.

Revolvers will function with a wider power range of ammo than semi's, but as long as quality in spec ammo is used in quality guns with good magazines I've never had any issues with semi-auto's reliability. If bad ammo or magazines are used semi's are going to be problematic.

I have had ejector rod issues, dirt under the ejectors and small parts in the lockwork of revolvers fail. Kept reasonably clean I'd probably give a slight edge to most revolvers over semi's, but I'd bet you'd have to shoot several thousand rounds through each to declare a winner.

Semi's are more ruggedly built with fewer parts, and fewer small parts that require close tolerances. When it comes to still functioning after hard use and abuse my money is on the semi.
 
Re buck460XVR:
"First off, anyone using red locktite on small revolver screws should not be doing their own home gunsmithing. "

It's so funny that you should say this, since if you had read my OP (as others have pointed out), the side-plate screw was factory red locktighted. So, S&W shouldn't be in the business of making guns if that's your logic.

No, my complaint is based on the fact that many of the screws were FACTORY loctited, and I've had to re-locktite them and locktite screws that were not locktited. Yes, I understand that I am new to revolvers. But once again, some people did not fully read my OP:

Re pete2: "First off, it's a lightweight gun, it ain't made of steel, it's a 9mm , it's a new S&W gun." It IS made of steel, except for the cylinder. All of the screws that have backed out are housed in stainless steel.

Regarding oil: No, I have never cleaned the gun or oiled it. This is a factory condition gun that is backing itself out on its own. The only thing that I have done to the gun is fire it and retighten screws, sometimes relocktighting them. But once again, I don't see me not cleaning it to cause the screws to loosen.

RE FUBARness: Yes, I feel the same way, but I am a lucky character, which is why I wanted feedback before I complained to S&W. If the issue is just me "maintaining the gun" by retightening screws every 200-300 rounds (and regluing them), then it could be a side-effect of current revolver production. But this would make me sad. It seems like a number of you recommend sending it back to Smith. This would make more than 50% of the guns I've owned factory defects... sadness...

Re round-type fired through the gun: I've fired +P 400+ ft/lbs 115 grain 9mm FMJ, 147 grain standard pressure TMJ, 115 grain aluminum case standard pressure FMJ, 115 grain standard pressure FMJ, 124 grain +P Golden Sabers, and 147 grain Golden Sabers. None of these rounds were aberrant or non-factory loads. I would doubt that they caused undue vibration or stress on the gun.
 
RE MisterBorland: "As we're indicating, this isn't "normal maintenance". Running it hot shouldn't make a difference. Contact S&W."

I appreciate the frankness and the responses. Thank you all for your feedback! I really appreciate the depth of experience from the Firing Line.

RE jmr40: I agree with you so far, in terms of my limited experience. Semi-autos seem more simple in terms of parts and maintenance. I've never seen a 9mm round that causes inherent malfunctions in a service-semi---other than very rough steel case that caused follower-binding issues in my factory Springfield XD mags. Oddly, the lower friction MecGar XD mags worked fine with the rough steel.

Oh, and some of my polymer framed Kahrs choked on the very square hollow points of Remmington Golden sabers. I had magazine locking issues and feeding issues when the square-nosed hollow points hit the throat/feed ramp in a CW9. No issues with my K9 Elite and its high-polished throat.
 
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Darker Loaf, i'm starting to get the distinct impression that high-end firearms don't like you :D, but in all seriousness my friend, send the PC 986 back to S&W, those screws shouldn't be coming out even with +p 115gr. 9mm ammo, especially with loktite on them. i hope S&W makes it right, and i wish the best of luck, and that you don't have a similar experience like you had with your Arsenal AK.
 
I am sorry if I seemed rude in my previous post. I was in a hurry. I have owned somewhere between 15 and 20 revolvers in my life, probably closer to 20. One gave me problems the first time I took it shooting, so I cleaned it thoroughly and went out to the range again. It acted up the second time, so I got rid of it. The rest have all been completely reliable. You were sold a defective revolver. Smith and Wesson needs to honor their warranty.

I've owned about a dozen semi-autos. Coincidentally, one gave me problems so I got rid of it. The rest have been fine.

In my mind the only real difference is that even the best semi-autos will malfunction if it happens to encounter a defective round of ammunition, and that is extremely rare. Other than that, IMHO a good modern firearm will be reliable. You just got unlucky and got a bad one.
 
I shoot about 3000 rounds a season. Most in SAA .45 Colt, Ruger Vaquero and Taylor & Co.(Uberti). Light loads and full house. Screws come loose, it is a fact of life.
 
Dear Darker: just started reading thread.... First, IMHO a semi-auto has less parts and is more reliable than a revolver. The troubles begin with shooters that don't shoot a semi-auto correctly and get stove pipe jams, etc. from limp wrist holds, etc.
On the revolvers, you need a top quality and Smith and Wesson used to be tops, they made they own screws in the factory, whole deal. I don't like the looks of the new Smith & Wessons and I don't think the guns are as good as what they made years ago. The old guns may be blued steel but they were works of art. I have all the various sized frames and have never had any trouble with the screws loosening up. On the other hand you are doing a lot of shooting. I am a neat freak, always stripping down the revolvers and cleaning them (I have a lot of semi-autos as well). IAE it seems to me you ought to be able to run 1,000 min through a handgun without troubles. I ran 2,0000 through a Browning HP before I decided to do more than routine cleaning and strip it down and do it up right. If the screws are loosening up on every session then maybe there was some type of manufacturers flaw. See if you can get new screws, if they are backing out maybe lightly tap and distort the threads to make them fit tighter and see if that works (provided you have the back up set of screws/bolts).
I'm sure years ago if you called the factory and explained the situation they would have taken the gun back and made it right but today- probably not.
When it comes to firearms, I'll pay more to get more. Quality is everything. Buy your girlfriend drug store candy and eat at McDonalds but don't ever skimp on firearms. :cool:
 
RE silvermane_1: Yeah, you've noticed a trend, too, huh? It's so sad. I buy quality to avoid QC issues. Maybe I should just stick to Keltec and Taurus or something, and if I get a bad one, just throw it in a pond and by a new one.

I've heard nothing but good things about Smith's customer service. I'm just not looking forward to sending yet another gun back in. I'm crossing my fingers that they won't be like Arsenal or EAA and tell me that they've "fixed" my gun, when really they just put the same parts back in the same places without doing anything--or frankly even listening to me when I tell them what I've seen go wrong.
 
I didn't intend to start the thread to flame revolvers, but more so to express my frustration with what should be a reliable and IS a fun, accurate, and seemingly well-made gun. But even with my horrible track record with firearms, this revolver takes the cake. And since I've been unlucky with firearms in the past and am new to revolvers, I wanted feedback (which I've gotten) on if the screw-backing out was normal or if it had something to do with the rapidity of which I've fired the gun or something else I'm missing.

It sounds like some very experienced revolver owners suggest one of two things:

1) The screw backing out is normal maintenance on revolvers. No normal firearm I've ever owned or fired (other than some terribly tight-fitted 1911's) has needed maintenance every 100-200 rounds to go "BANG!"

NOTE: The most frustrating screw-backing out is the strain screw (did I get the name right this time?), because that's what's causing the reliability issues. I think the rear sight should stay put now, though, that I've blue locktited it. I've blue locktited the strain screw, too, so maybe I'll be OK now? I'm just worried since the factory red locktited side-plate screw backed out after vigorous firing that my blue locktited screws will back out easily after a 200-300 round session.

2) S&W should service/warranty my gun.

The redneck/handyman in me just sees this a maintenance issue, because how could a factory screw up screws? By having a too-large a diameter screw-hole or too-small a diameter screw?
 
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It's so funny that you should say this, since if you had read my OP (as others have pointed out), the side-plate screw was factory red locktighted. So, S&W shouldn't be in the business of making guns if that's your logic.

I have serious doubts as to S&W using an inappropriate thread locker designed for bigger fasteners and requiring heat to disassemble on screws that are intended to be removed. I've used thread locker on many screws on my S&W and other firearms. But never Red. Even then I regularly check screws for loosening after extended range sessions. Just the nature of the beast....and I have some beasts. Some of the problems may be related to the expansion and contraction of dissimilar metals...I dunno. But I know Red Loctite isn't the solution. If you are having problems with your new S&W revolver, contact their CS. It is very good and they have a very fast turn around on warranty issues.
 
Darker Loaf said:
It sounds like some very experienced revolver owners suggest one of two things:

1) The screw backing out is normal maintenance on revolvers.


This is the second time it seems you feel you've been told this in this thread, but numerous people have indicated to you that this isn't normal. I offered it several times, and one time explicitly.
 
Not normal to me, either. The one that finally came loose on mine was the one that held the ejector rod onto the barrel of a single-action revolver. I correctly or incorrectly put the blame onto myself for not handling the ejector rod carefully when I was a teenager.
 
I too have mentioned that I have dozens of S&W revolvers, I have never had a screw, including the strain screw, back out on any of them. Not in over 40 years of shooting.

I did mention that frame screws tend to back out on the Colt Single Action Army, but that is not what we are talking about here.
 
Re MrBorland: I meant only to summarize what some others have commented on. Yes, less people think it's just a maintenance issue vs. a warranty issue, but those are the two takes on my revolver.

I am just in partial denial, because I don't want to believe that I've gotten another junker from a reputable company that I have to send back in.
 
Re: Darker Loaf, well it may seem that way my friend, but i sure do hope S&W makes that PC 986 right, if not try to find Charter Arms in 9mm, or if you like SAA, one of the Ruger Blackhawk 357/9mm converts, or the uber rare Ruger -Sixs DA in 9mm, but as you can see from my sigline, i'm pretty much a Ruger "fan boy" :D, but i never had any problems with the exception of my mini-14, and that is well known problem having to do with aftermarket mags being used with them.
 
My next firearm purchase will likely be the new LCR 9mm. I really want a DAO only revolver, and the factory triggers on centerfire LCRs are pretty smooth. It'd be a fun gun to learn how to shoot a subbie on. Though, perhaps I should wait as to not catch the kinks of a new release.

Ruger firearms are decent though my 22/45 has some bobbles before reverting it to Mark II VQ internals. Now it runs admirably. I miss my Buckmark--I should have never sold it, but my 22/45 is admittedly a more accurate gun. I shall not talk about my 10-22 here.

I'd like to see what the the 986 would feel like with a trigger job and a DAO trigger. I really hope I can get this gun figured out. I really like it.
 
Re Darker Loaf, hmm, to be honest i didn't know or must have forgot about, that Ruger made a LCR in 9mm, but a good buy nonetheless, and i still hope the S&W makes the PC 986 right for you.
 
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