MARKDANIEL
Inactive
If i possibly could not avoid it I guess a semi auto like this would do http://barrett.net/firearms/model82a1
Revolver or Semi in a gunfight?
- Thread starter TXAZ
- Start date
OldMarksman
Staff
Some revolvers can be fired in a jacket pocket, and that can be an advantage in some situations.
If one has to engage a dangerous person at some distance, most of us would be better off with a revolver with a clean light trigger pull and a long sight radius than with most semi-autos.
.45 Auto
Just because someone try's to take your gun dont mean you can shoot them. Just because you have a gun dont mean you should always shoot them.
Ok I can respect your opinion that sharpening the front sight is stupid. However I disagree. I think it's kind of a nifty idea. About as smart as putting a bayonette on a rifle. Not all guns are safe queens or are all owners looking to maintain some resale value. 2" Jframes are not meant to be tack drivers. I'm sure some folks can drive tacks with them. This thread is about surviving a gun fight. The best way to survive a gunfight is to avoid one. If your opponent is that close up on you (what J frames are designed for) I can see a sharp front sight being pretty usefull. It's just in my opinion of a practical soloution. So.... I'm looking for an inexpensive /shooter model 60... and I'm going to sharpen the front sight.
Just because someone try's to take your gun dont mean you can shoot them. Just because you have a gun dont mean you should always shoot them.
Ok I can respect your opinion that sharpening the front sight is stupid. However I disagree. I think it's kind of a nifty idea. About as smart as putting a bayonette on a rifle. Not all guns are safe queens or are all owners looking to maintain some resale value. 2" Jframes are not meant to be tack drivers. I'm sure some folks can drive tacks with them. This thread is about surviving a gun fight. The best way to survive a gunfight is to avoid one. If your opponent is that close up on you (what J frames are designed for) I can see a sharp front sight being pretty usefull. It's just in my opinion of a practical soloution. So.... I'm looking for an inexpensive /shooter model 60... and I'm going to sharpen the front sight.
Seems to me that practicing retention skills would be a more effective, and safer, method than sharpening a front sight. I suspect injuries to the user are more likely with the sharp sight, than the likelihood of use against a grabber. I could also see a couple of non-injury related drawbacks to this: damage to holsters over time from drawing the weapon, and eventual bending/warping of the sight. (Sharpened edges tend to be easier to bend or chip than less sharp edges - this is why wood axes are not razor honed.)
I do know some guys who carry TDI type knives opposite from their holsters. In the event of a grab, the idea is they can use their support hand to draw the knife and slice the gun grabber's hand or wrist. This also seems to me a more useful approach.
I do know some guys who carry TDI type knives opposite from their holsters. In the event of a grab, the idea is they can use their support hand to draw the knife and slice the gun grabber's hand or wrist. This also seems to me a more useful approach.
357 Python
New member
If I expected to be in a gunfight I would bring my AR or shotgun. If limited on to revolver or semi-auto it makes little difference to me. I can use either very effectively. I started out with a revolver so I have faith in them and my ability to use them.
I don't think I've posted this in awhile....My humble thoughts on the matter:
I started out shooting revolvers many years ago. Revolvers were quite reliable to work with and then along came the autos with new improved designs, better ammunition performance and greater capacity. In truth, I felt that the reliability of the auto finally came up to a level of what I felt was the tactical equivalency of well maintained revolvers and so I began to carry an auto.
Here are some random observations I have discovered about the two weapon systems. Revolvers will occasionally malfunction and so will autos. I accept the fact that a high quality auto is just as likely, or unlikely, to break a part that stops the gun from functioning, just as any high quality revolver would should it experience catastrophic failure of a particular part. I have actually broken more parts in autos than revolvers, but I can attribute that to sheer luck. Slide stops have broken, firing pins have broken, but statistically, I would argue that neither one is likely to just "break" when you need it.
On the few occasions that I have had a revolver stop working, it was a cumulative effect of shooting. It started to get dirty, crap under the extractor star, the barrel cylinder gap got lead and powder residue, the chambers got sticky from lots of .38's and then having to force a .357 into the chamber. In other words, most of the problems came on slowly. I knew eventually the gun was going to stop working because of the indicators it gave; such as the trigger pull beginning to feel heavy or the bind I felt when attempting to close the cylinder.
However, there were times that for no apparent reason, a clean, well-lubed auto, would sometimes just not feed, fire, or eject a round. The bullet nose would catch on the feed-ramp, an empty round would fail to get out of the way of the next round, or there would be some other type of failure that seemed to occur randomly, and without warning.
Standing on the line, at the range, neither gun failed very often. Nice firm grip, dry hands, locked wrists, all is well in the world of hand-gunning. But, in the neat world of tactical hand-gunning when a deadly force confrontation erupts, we know that it is anything but a static situation or under perfect conditions!
Recently, I have watched a few episodes of "Under Fire" on Court TV. Autos, good quality (and, hopefully) well maintained autos, sometimes crap out in the middle of a gunfight. These incidents can be attributed to such things as: a weak one-handed grip, or perhaps coming out of battery when rolling around on the ground, or when the weapon is shoved against the bad guy, or whatever else that can impact a weapon system in a serious close quarter fight. The auto needs a solid platform to work off of. In the real world of close quarter fighting you must remember this should your weapon malfunction!
At distances where the Officer could maneuver, even though it was still in close proximity to the suspect, the auto rarely seemed to jam. But, if the fight closed all the way down to contact distance, then there is the chance that the auto could turn into a single shot weapon.
As an example of this, there is one particular episode that comes to mind involving an Officer fighting with an experienced, no-nonsense boxer, that was about to beat the Officer to death. Finally, the Officer drew his pistol and got off one shot into the BG's midsection with little effect, and, the gun jammed on the first shot! The BG then grabbed the gun and beat the Officer with it and tossed it. The Officer was able to pick it back up later in the fight. (Interesting video if you ever get a chance to see it.)
On duty, I have to carry a Glock 35. And, I'm not sure I am ready to give up the general reliability, magazine capacity, and ease of shooting of a good auto for the vast majority of shooting situations. But, as a backup, I carry a 642. And, it seems a lot of others are big fans of the little revolvers as backup guns as well.
Off duty, I find myself carrying a 3" S&W M65 more and more. I envision an off duty encounter being a very fast fight that turns into a gunfight. Bad guy rushing you with a knife, BG jumping you, knocking you down and attacking you, two guys pinning you into a corner and the fight is on. Capacity becomes secondary to utter reliability for me at that point. I can still get good hits with a revolver out to 25 yards or so, if I have to, but it's not really something I see happening. Truth be known, the odds of needing a gun at all are pretty remote, but if we are the kind of individual with the right tactical mindset, then we should plan for those unexpected events and be ready for it.
So, what are some other's thoughts? Have you taken your favorite defense auto out to the range, held it with your left hand, bent your wrist and elbow and tried getting off as many shots as you could? Have you held it upside down, or covered your hands in soapy water and then tried to shoot through an entire magazine? Have you tried shoving it into the target to see if it gets pushed out of battery? The question then is - did it jam after the first shot? I have personally done all those things and found that the reliability of a quality auto weapon went downhill.
It seems that most autos jam during the feeding and ejecting cycle. That's the one part that you do manually before and after the festivities with a revolver. During a gunfight, a revolver cannot have a feeding malfunction or an ejection malfunction. I realize that clearing an auto jam is a lot faster than clearing a revolver jam. But, that really cool "Tap-rack-bang" that you practice on the range really needs that off hand to work. If that off hand is keeping a box cutter off your throat, things go downhill in a hurry.
This is not to say if you are carrying a revolver that you couldn't experience a malfunction with it as well. As an example, I am talking about something like a high primer, making it difficult to pull through on the trigger. To combat this effect - pull the trigger REALLY hard, it just may go bang again! There are pros and cons to both of these weapon systems.
If these thoughts get a few people to thinking, and helps you to become more aware of your own abilities as well as your weapon's capabilities and limitations, then great. If it just makes you train harder, for what YOU consider a real world gunfight, even better. Remember: practice hard, practice often and be safe. Best regard to you all.
I started out shooting revolvers many years ago. Revolvers were quite reliable to work with and then along came the autos with new improved designs, better ammunition performance and greater capacity. In truth, I felt that the reliability of the auto finally came up to a level of what I felt was the tactical equivalency of well maintained revolvers and so I began to carry an auto.
Here are some random observations I have discovered about the two weapon systems. Revolvers will occasionally malfunction and so will autos. I accept the fact that a high quality auto is just as likely, or unlikely, to break a part that stops the gun from functioning, just as any high quality revolver would should it experience catastrophic failure of a particular part. I have actually broken more parts in autos than revolvers, but I can attribute that to sheer luck. Slide stops have broken, firing pins have broken, but statistically, I would argue that neither one is likely to just "break" when you need it.
On the few occasions that I have had a revolver stop working, it was a cumulative effect of shooting. It started to get dirty, crap under the extractor star, the barrel cylinder gap got lead and powder residue, the chambers got sticky from lots of .38's and then having to force a .357 into the chamber. In other words, most of the problems came on slowly. I knew eventually the gun was going to stop working because of the indicators it gave; such as the trigger pull beginning to feel heavy or the bind I felt when attempting to close the cylinder.
However, there were times that for no apparent reason, a clean, well-lubed auto, would sometimes just not feed, fire, or eject a round. The bullet nose would catch on the feed-ramp, an empty round would fail to get out of the way of the next round, or there would be some other type of failure that seemed to occur randomly, and without warning.
Standing on the line, at the range, neither gun failed very often. Nice firm grip, dry hands, locked wrists, all is well in the world of hand-gunning. But, in the neat world of tactical hand-gunning when a deadly force confrontation erupts, we know that it is anything but a static situation or under perfect conditions!
Recently, I have watched a few episodes of "Under Fire" on Court TV. Autos, good quality (and, hopefully) well maintained autos, sometimes crap out in the middle of a gunfight. These incidents can be attributed to such things as: a weak one-handed grip, or perhaps coming out of battery when rolling around on the ground, or when the weapon is shoved against the bad guy, or whatever else that can impact a weapon system in a serious close quarter fight. The auto needs a solid platform to work off of. In the real world of close quarter fighting you must remember this should your weapon malfunction!
At distances where the Officer could maneuver, even though it was still in close proximity to the suspect, the auto rarely seemed to jam. But, if the fight closed all the way down to contact distance, then there is the chance that the auto could turn into a single shot weapon.
As an example of this, there is one particular episode that comes to mind involving an Officer fighting with an experienced, no-nonsense boxer, that was about to beat the Officer to death. Finally, the Officer drew his pistol and got off one shot into the BG's midsection with little effect, and, the gun jammed on the first shot! The BG then grabbed the gun and beat the Officer with it and tossed it. The Officer was able to pick it back up later in the fight. (Interesting video if you ever get a chance to see it.)
On duty, I have to carry a Glock 35. And, I'm not sure I am ready to give up the general reliability, magazine capacity, and ease of shooting of a good auto for the vast majority of shooting situations. But, as a backup, I carry a 642. And, it seems a lot of others are big fans of the little revolvers as backup guns as well.
Off duty, I find myself carrying a 3" S&W M65 more and more. I envision an off duty encounter being a very fast fight that turns into a gunfight. Bad guy rushing you with a knife, BG jumping you, knocking you down and attacking you, two guys pinning you into a corner and the fight is on. Capacity becomes secondary to utter reliability for me at that point. I can still get good hits with a revolver out to 25 yards or so, if I have to, but it's not really something I see happening. Truth be known, the odds of needing a gun at all are pretty remote, but if we are the kind of individual with the right tactical mindset, then we should plan for those unexpected events and be ready for it.
So, what are some other's thoughts? Have you taken your favorite defense auto out to the range, held it with your left hand, bent your wrist and elbow and tried getting off as many shots as you could? Have you held it upside down, or covered your hands in soapy water and then tried to shoot through an entire magazine? Have you tried shoving it into the target to see if it gets pushed out of battery? The question then is - did it jam after the first shot? I have personally done all those things and found that the reliability of a quality auto weapon went downhill.
It seems that most autos jam during the feeding and ejecting cycle. That's the one part that you do manually before and after the festivities with a revolver. During a gunfight, a revolver cannot have a feeding malfunction or an ejection malfunction. I realize that clearing an auto jam is a lot faster than clearing a revolver jam. But, that really cool "Tap-rack-bang" that you practice on the range really needs that off hand to work. If that off hand is keeping a box cutter off your throat, things go downhill in a hurry.
This is not to say if you are carrying a revolver that you couldn't experience a malfunction with it as well. As an example, I am talking about something like a high primer, making it difficult to pull through on the trigger. To combat this effect - pull the trigger REALLY hard, it just may go bang again! There are pros and cons to both of these weapon systems.
If these thoughts get a few people to thinking, and helps you to become more aware of your own abilities as well as your weapon's capabilities and limitations, then great. If it just makes you train harder, for what YOU consider a real world gunfight, even better. Remember: practice hard, practice often and be safe. Best regard to you all.
igousigloo
New member
If I thought I was going to be in a gunfight, I would pick hand grenades!
This is certainly becoming a smorgasboard, just pick and choose whatever flavor you want.
BUT, . . . back to the OP question (at least the theme/theory of the question), . . . which IYHO is a better choice for a gunfight should you wind up in one.
I think all we have to do is look around at those people who carry sidearms for a living, . . . anticipate the very real probablity that in their line of work, they may be involved in a shooting altercation, . . . and see what they do.
When was the last time you saw a patrol officer with a revolver?
When was the last time you saw a USMC grunt with a revolver?
The sad part is that if they both go bad, . . . tap rack and bang usually works for the semi auto, . . . but it is gunsmith time for the revolver.
I'll have a semi auto, thank you very much, preferably in .45ACP.
May God bless,
Dwight
BUT, . . . back to the OP question (at least the theme/theory of the question), . . . which IYHO is a better choice for a gunfight should you wind up in one.
I think all we have to do is look around at those people who carry sidearms for a living, . . . anticipate the very real probablity that in their line of work, they may be involved in a shooting altercation, . . . and see what they do.
When was the last time you saw a patrol officer with a revolver?
When was the last time you saw a USMC grunt with a revolver?
The sad part is that if they both go bad, . . . tap rack and bang usually works for the semi auto, . . . but it is gunsmith time for the revolver.
I'll have a semi auto, thank you very much, preferably in .45ACP.
May God bless,
Dwight
peacefulgary
New member
In a perfect world every bullet finds its target, and every target goes down with a single hit, so the good guy drops six bad guys with just six shots from his trusty old six-shooter.
But in the real world most of the good guys miss their targets more often than they hit them.
And the bad guys don't always drop from a single hit.
Five-to-eight rounds just isn't enough in my opinion.
But in the real world most of the good guys miss their targets more often than they hit them.
And the bad guys don't always drop from a single hit.
Five-to-eight rounds just isn't enough in my opinion.
L_Killkenny
New member
Look, we can all second guess ourselves right into become recluses, never leaving the house and answering the door with a 12ga. The fact is when it comes to my thoughts on caliber and platform wars I can never think of an instance where I wouldn't want something better. Home invasion? I want the best. Convenience Store robbery? I want the best. Car jacking? I want the best. I'll carry a .22lr on occasion, sometimes a SA centerfire, don't have issues with .380's or .38's etc etc. But you put me in just about any scenario and I want more. More power, more capacity, faster reloads. To heck with all these primitive guns, give a phaser!. All kidding aside no matter what you choose your gonna be wishing you had something better. You're also gonna be wishing you were somewhere else.
But to give a straight answer to the question, a person would have to be pretty thick in the head to choose go into a known gunfight with a revolver. I don't care how good he thinks he is with one or how many years he's been shooting one, to go all in with 5 or 6 shots and slow reloads compared to other options just doesn't seem right to me. As stated the military doesn't do it, LEO's don't do it, why should I do it. Being said I'm not going into a known gunfight with any handgun. Like I said, give me a shotgun and 4 friends with shotguns. Maybe some armor, a couple grenades would be nice, etc, etc.
Note: this is not against the viability of carrying a revolver for SD. I'm perfectly happy doing it, if you are great. But with SD carry you're talking very slim odds of a fight not going into a known gunfight.
But to give a straight answer to the question, a person would have to be pretty thick in the head to choose go into a known gunfight with a revolver. I don't care how good he thinks he is with one or how many years he's been shooting one, to go all in with 5 or 6 shots and slow reloads compared to other options just doesn't seem right to me. As stated the military doesn't do it, LEO's don't do it, why should I do it. Being said I'm not going into a known gunfight with any handgun. Like I said, give me a shotgun and 4 friends with shotguns. Maybe some armor, a couple grenades would be nice, etc, etc.
Note: this is not against the viability of carrying a revolver for SD. I'm perfectly happy doing it, if you are great. But with SD carry you're talking very slim odds of a fight not going into a known gunfight.
On duty I carried a 45 now as an old retired codger with a cane I carry a revolver. It don't make no never mind to me or to anybody about to get shot but if'n I had a choice beforehand give me something with a 24" barrel shooting 180 grains of 30 caliber. I would prefer to keep the gun fight at 600 yards instead of up close and personal because I am a large slow moving target and dislike losing water tight integrity.
Anyone who believes that a semi auto allows faster follow up shots has never watched Jerry Miculek work a revolver.
ALL of my CCW guns are S&W revolvers even though I can't cycle a revolver's action quite as fast as I can a 1911. Close but not quite. And revolvers are chambered in more useful calibers. (Unless you count the Desert Eagle) I have only seen a few instances of revolver failures. I have seen so many instances where a semi auto would stop working although they can usually be cleared pretty quickly where a revolver will need a bench and some tools.
ALL of my CCW guns are S&W revolvers even though I can't cycle a revolver's action quite as fast as I can a 1911. Close but not quite. And revolvers are chambered in more useful calibers. (Unless you count the Desert Eagle) I have only seen a few instances of revolver failures. I have seen so many instances where a semi auto would stop working although they can usually be cleared pretty quickly where a revolver will need a bench and some tools.
Last edited: