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Retired Firefighter Shoots Neighbor, Claims Self Defense
- Thread starter Bartholomew Roberts
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Frank Ettin
Administrator
I guess we'll soon see what the jury thinks.
"Prosecutors said Rodriguez was not in fear for his life and had ample opportunity to leave the confrontation he started....
...Prosecutors said Rodriguez fatally shot Kelly Danaher, a physical education teacher at Sorters Mill Elementary in New Caney ISD, in his own driveway at his wife's birthday party in northeast Harris County. Rodriguez also shot two other men, one a Houston Fire Department captain, just afterward. " [B. Rogers, Houston Chronicle, Updated June 7, 2012]
Wow...poor guy was shot (and killed) at his wife's birthday party, Mr. Rodriguez also wounded 2 other good people...its not like he shot three crack-heads breaking down his front door. Unbelieveable.
When there's a loud party I simply put in my ear-plugs and go to bed.
"I guess we'll soon see what the jury thinks. "
Indeed.
...Prosecutors said Rodriguez fatally shot Kelly Danaher, a physical education teacher at Sorters Mill Elementary in New Caney ISD, in his own driveway at his wife's birthday party in northeast Harris County. Rodriguez also shot two other men, one a Houston Fire Department captain, just afterward. " [B. Rogers, Houston Chronicle, Updated June 7, 2012]
Wow...poor guy was shot (and killed) at his wife's birthday party, Mr. Rodriguez also wounded 2 other good people...its not like he shot three crack-heads breaking down his front door. Unbelieveable.
When there's a loud party I simply put in my ear-plugs and go to bed.
"I guess we'll soon see what the jury thinks. "
Indeed.
UtopiaTexasG19
New member
"The 'expert' in the first video, Jim Pruett"
Jim Pruett was a radio disc jockey for years here in the Houston, Texas area before he sold guns. He has a spot on our local Channel 39 most nights and in my opinion is a embarrassment to the local gun community. Quoteing him for any real facts is a huge stretch of the imagination. Even my wife asks me if the guy is for real with some of the statements he makes on tv.
Jim Pruett was a radio disc jockey for years here in the Houston, Texas area before he sold guns. He has a spot on our local Channel 39 most nights and in my opinion is a embarrassment to the local gun community. Quoteing him for any real facts is a huge stretch of the imagination. Even my wife asks me if the guy is for real with some of the statements he makes on tv.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Some new information from a recent news story:
"Seconds later Houston Fire Department senior captain Ricky Johnson, who testified he was drunk at the party, moves closer to Rodriguez and makes fun of his camera. The argument ends there with the crack of gunfire. "
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18734009/2012/06/07/shooters-video-may-save-or-condemn-him
Johnson was one of the men shot by Rodriguez.
"Seconds later Houston Fire Department senior captain Ricky Johnson, who testified he was drunk at the party, moves closer to Rodriguez and makes fun of his camera. The argument ends there with the crack of gunfire. "
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/18734009/2012/06/07/shooters-video-may-save-or-condemn-him
Johnson was one of the men shot by Rodriguez.
"Prosecutors said Rodriguez was not in fear for his life and had ample opportunity to leave the confrontation he started....
Yes.. Because prosecutors are unbiased. RemembCer it's their job to win cases.
I think some people here are armchairing this to death. From the video it looks like there is a good chance he was NOT on the deceased property. As someone else already mentioned, at one point in the movie one of the parygoers said "theres a [crazy?] man with a gun in the street." Knowing how some parties go, it's no surprise if it spread to the front of the house/street.
As for not "retreating" if there were cops there, then maybe he was depending on them to intervene. Also, at the end of the video it looks like he WAS starting to walk away and got tackled when he turned his back.
Now about it being justified. It's up to the jury, but I can count 3-4 and there probably a LOT more drunk partiers who look to be siding with the deceased. The defendant, Rodriguez, at one point says that they have weapons as well. Which also isn't a stretch of the imagination (broken beer bottles, etc.). I know I'd be in fear for MY life.
If you think about it, the events leading up to the shooting could happen to any of us. It's quite quaint to say "just go to bed" or let the "police handle it." But it sounds like this was not the first time this had happened and the police were called. I'm not sure if Rodriguez is a current or retired firefighter, but remember that often they work long shifts. I know that after working an 18 hour shift at the hospital I'd be a bit testy if kept awake by my neighbors.
While I concur that the situation was badly handled, I do think that this very situation could easily happen to someone with the most innocent motives, e.i., you or me.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Nope, I don't think this one could happen to most folks with quality training or common sense.
Double Naught Spy
New member
"Seconds later Houston Fire Department senior captain Ricky Johnson, who testified he was drunk at the party, moves closer to Rodriguez and makes fun of his camera. The argument ends there with the crack of gunfire. "
I think that is a bit misleading. It gives the impression that Rodriguez fired because his camera was insulted. The argument did end, but I can't see where the insult to the camera is what caused Rodriguez to shoot.
Yes.. Because prosecutors are unbiased. RemembCer it's their job to win cases.
No, it is their job to prosecute cases. However, you don't have to believe the prosecutor that Rodriguez did had ample opportunity to remove himself from the situation. If he was in fear for his life as he claimed, there was nothing stopping him from walking away to the safety of his own home, but he didn't. That is shown in the video.
Now about it being justified. It's up to the jury, but I can count 3-4 and there probably a LOT more drunk partiers who look to be siding with the deceased. The defendant, Rodriguez, at one point says that they have weapons as well. Which also isn't a stretch of the imagination (broken beer bottles, etc.). I know I'd be in fear for MY life.
And so instead of backing off, you would instead continue to try running your camera, being on the phone with 911, keeping a gun in hand, and using your flashlight like Rodriguez? His behavoir doesn't seem to indicate that he is in fear for his life. Why would all of those things be more important to him than trying to remove himself from the situation?
I guess you could argue that he multitasked himself into dysfunction or maybe he could not walk away because he was running some of his gear with his feet. I don't know, but his actions and his words do not indicate that he was in fear for his life, despite claiming he was.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I must respectfully disagree that this is something "that could happen to any of us".
The problem with this logic is that this isn't something that "happened". Robberies, rapes, muggings, these things "happen". This is something he DID, and there's a huge, huge difference.
This could not "happen" to me because I will not initiate confrontation. I will not go looking for trouble. I avoid trouble and deescalate problems at every opportunity. I leave, given any chance. I will not stay unless there is no choice. I will not argue, insult or otherwise escalate a problem.
I have watched that video a couple times now and I come away with the, I believe inescapable, conclusion that he got exactly what he went looking for, exactly what he wanted. This isn't something that happened to him, it's something he did.
The problem with this logic is that this isn't something that "happened". Robberies, rapes, muggings, these things "happen". This is something he DID, and there's a huge, huge difference.
This could not "happen" to me because I will not initiate confrontation. I will not go looking for trouble. I avoid trouble and deescalate problems at every opportunity. I leave, given any chance. I will not stay unless there is no choice. I will not argue, insult or otherwise escalate a problem.
I have watched that video a couple times now and I come away with the, I believe inescapable, conclusion that he got exactly what he went looking for, exactly what he wanted. This isn't something that happened to him, it's something he did.
Absolutely, Mr. Pfleuger,
This doesn't "happen" to me, either. I tend to avoid confrontations with neighbors because (a) they're my neighbors, and (b) just as I want to be left unmolested in my daily affairs, I don't believe in molesting them in theirs, even if they are somewhat noisome (and noisy).
That would have to be one out-of-control party for me to even approach the house, smiling, sans flashlight and video camera, with a polite request that they lower the music just a wee bit. More likely, I would just grit my teeth and bear it. Parties, even drunken parties, have a curious tendency to lose steam and peter out after a while. If this were a frequent recurring phenomenon, and the polite smile wasn't working, I'd ask the county police to intervene.
This doesn't "happen" to me, either. I tend to avoid confrontations with neighbors because (a) they're my neighbors, and (b) just as I want to be left unmolested in my daily affairs, I don't believe in molesting them in theirs, even if they are somewhat noisome (and noisy).
That would have to be one out-of-control party for me to even approach the house, smiling, sans flashlight and video camera, with a polite request that they lower the music just a wee bit. More likely, I would just grit my teeth and bear it. Parties, even drunken parties, have a curious tendency to lose steam and peter out after a while. If this were a frequent recurring phenomenon, and the polite smile wasn't working, I'd ask the county police to intervene.
Maybe I should clarify. I said, "the events leading up to the shooting could happen to any of us."
I don't know the whole situation, but come on, suppose you had a neighbor who threw loud parties (from the video it sounds like this had happened before), you called the cops and not much happens. So, perhaps you decide to get some evidence for a more formal complaint/suit. You get a camera and a flashlight and strap on your CCW before you leave the house, perhaps out of habit.
Now here is where the path diverges from "could happen to any of us." Hopefully when confronted with escalation/threat of force in this instance most of us would take the option of retreat. That Rodriguez should have done this I can't argue with. All I was trying to say is that many of us could easily get in this very situation, the difference of course, is HOW we handle it. It's easy, and foolish IMHO, to say "that you would NEVER confront a neighbor in this situation." I live in an apartment complex with other college students and I've asked my neighbors to keep it down (no video camera or gun tho) a few times and could see the situation escalating if I let it.
Training is good. Rational behavior you can't always depend on, even for YOU. We're human after all, it's easy for the mind to get knocked off balance. I see it at the hospital all the time.
I don't know the whole situation, but come on, suppose you had a neighbor who threw loud parties (from the video it sounds like this had happened before), you called the cops and not much happens. So, perhaps you decide to get some evidence for a more formal complaint/suit. You get a camera and a flashlight and strap on your CCW before you leave the house, perhaps out of habit.
Now here is where the path diverges from "could happen to any of us." Hopefully when confronted with escalation/threat of force in this instance most of us would take the option of retreat. That Rodriguez should have done this I can't argue with. All I was trying to say is that many of us could easily get in this very situation, the difference of course, is HOW we handle it. It's easy, and foolish IMHO, to say "that you would NEVER confront a neighbor in this situation." I live in an apartment complex with other college students and I've asked my neighbors to keep it down (no video camera or gun tho) a few times and could see the situation escalating if I let it.
Training is good. Rational behavior you can't always depend on, even for YOU. We're human after all, it's easy for the mind to get knocked off balance. I see it at the hospital all the time.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
That's the problem....
You DON'T go looking for evidence. You DON'T strap on your gun.
Sure, anybody might have loud neighbors and cops who don't care, but that's the end of the "it could happen to any of us" because after that, everything he did was wrong. He escalated, antagonized, failed to leave, initiated...
What you do is file a formal complaint against the police department. You talk to a lawyer about a "cease and desist" order, or whatever it would be called. You take smart, legal actions not stupid, antagonistic actions.
You DON'T go looking for evidence. You DON'T strap on your gun.
Sure, anybody might have loud neighbors and cops who don't care, but that's the end of the "it could happen to any of us" because after that, everything he did was wrong. He escalated, antagonized, failed to leave, initiated...
What you do is file a formal complaint against the police department. You talk to a lawyer about a "cease and desist" order, or whatever it would be called. You take smart, legal actions not stupid, antagonistic actions.
I respect your opinion Mr. Pfleuger. And while I agree with you that hiring a lawyer and going through a process of some kind might be "safer," it is not always the best option.
If I hired a lawyer or filled out forms at the local PD every time my neighbors were rowdy during finals week I'd either be broke or wasting a lot of time. Thankfully usually a little politeness works and if not, I have the option of bunking someplace else for the night.
Not everyone can just leave, not everyone can just ignore it, not everyone can afford to drop a grand or two on a lawyer for a noise complaint. A lot of people here have said that if they leave their house they have a gun on. I know several people who when making complaints (trespassing etc.) have been told by the police to get photographs/videos (evidence).
I'm not saying what he did was right. I'm just pointing out that up until he stood there chanting "I'm in fear of my life" and brandishing, he really hadn't done anything terribly unreasonable.
If I hired a lawyer or filled out forms at the local PD every time my neighbors were rowdy during finals week I'd either be broke or wasting a lot of time. Thankfully usually a little politeness works and if not, I have the option of bunking someplace else for the night.
Not everyone can just leave, not everyone can just ignore it, not everyone can afford to drop a grand or two on a lawyer for a noise complaint. A lot of people here have said that if they leave their house they have a gun on. I know several people who when making complaints (trespassing etc.) have been told by the police to get photographs/videos (evidence).
I'm not saying what he did was right. I'm just pointing out that up until he stood there chanting "I'm in fear of my life" and brandishing, he really hadn't done anything terribly unreasonable.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
Thinking on this situation my grampa's words ring in my mind.
"If you feel you need a gun to go do something out of fear of a person attacking you. Do not go do it."
When carrying I try to live up to that. I ask myself. "If I left my gun at home, would I be here right now?" If I even slightly doubt I would. I leave right then.
I have had problems with neighbors before. Luckily I was renting. I cut losses on the deposit, and moved. To me it was just not worth it.
"If you feel you need a gun to go do something out of fear of a person attacking you. Do not go do it."
When carrying I try to live up to that. I ask myself. "If I left my gun at home, would I be here right now?" If I even slightly doubt I would. I leave right then.
I have had problems with neighbors before. Luckily I was renting. I cut losses on the deposit, and moved. To me it was just not worth it.
In the past, when friends or I have thrown potentially loud parties, we've invited the neighbors.
It's funny how they tend not to complain when they've been invited, even when they do not choose to attend.
I have to wonder if there were other causes for bad blood in this case than just the parties.
It's funny how they tend not to complain when they've been invited, even when they do not choose to attend.
I have to wonder if there were other causes for bad blood in this case than just the parties.
Catfishman
New member
I completely agree! Guys don't need to wade into a confrontation, start a verbal assault and feel that it's perfectly ok to mow someone down if it turns physical. I'm afraid some gun owners think SYG gives them this right.Jerks like this guy do more to skew public opinion against gun owners and SYG laws than all of the anti gun activists put together.
I wish SYG was more clearly understood. I don't want 'a duty to retreat' but a clarification, or maybe maybe a renaming of SYG might help dim witted cowards understand.
To say he "strapped on a gun" before going outside sounds like media skewing. Whenever I go outside, I "strap on".
On the other hand he could have left before brandishing. After he did draw, and threats were made, that's where it gets a bit hairy. As I stated earlier, from the video, it seems like he was never in the neighbors yard but in the street. SYG applies to places where an individual has a legal right to be.
After he drew and one guy says that he will go get his and be equal is where he might actually started to really feel scared. Obviously he was attacked, hence the shaking of the camera and then the shot. His fear was realized, but the questions for me are;
Did he have a legal right to document the obnoxious party? Yes.
Was he armed legally? Yes.
Did he brandish the firearm? Yes, but after a crowd of drunks were advancing on him.
Could he have left safely before brandishing? Yes, but did he legally have to being in the street where it appears he was when the actual confrontation started?
Not saying he is in the right or wrong I can definitely see arguments for both.
On the other hand he could have left before brandishing. After he did draw, and threats were made, that's where it gets a bit hairy. As I stated earlier, from the video, it seems like he was never in the neighbors yard but in the street. SYG applies to places where an individual has a legal right to be.
After he drew and one guy says that he will go get his and be equal is where he might actually started to really feel scared. Obviously he was attacked, hence the shaking of the camera and then the shot. His fear was realized, but the questions for me are;
Did he have a legal right to document the obnoxious party? Yes.
Was he armed legally? Yes.
Did he brandish the firearm? Yes, but after a crowd of drunks were advancing on him.
Could he have left safely before brandishing? Yes, but did he legally have to being in the street where it appears he was when the actual confrontation started?
Not saying he is in the right or wrong I can definitely see arguments for both.
Double Naught Spy
New member
I have watched that video a couple times now and I come away with the, I believe inescapable, conclusion that he got exactly what he went looking for, exactly what he wanted. This isn't something that happened to him, it's something he did.
Yes, but looking for it isn't illegal.
You DON'T strap on your gun.
To say he "strapped on a gun" before going outside sounds like media skewing. Whenever I go outside, I "strap on".
I don't see where this would be media skewing if the statement is valid. It isn't like others don't strap on guns before going out. Ayoob talks about doing this and apparently we have forum members that also describe doing this as well.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob69.html
In fact, it is a phrase he has used numerous times.
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4TSNA_enUS361US436&q=ayoob+strap+on
I don't see where this would be media skewing if the statement is valid. It isn't like others don't strap on guns before going out. Ayoob talks about doing this and apparently we have forum members that also describe doing this as well.
Except it makes it seem that this was the only time he did it instead of as part of a normal routine.
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