Mike Irwin
Staff
Deleted by poster.
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited August 29, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited August 29, 2000).]
Restraints (A FUDlike Question)
- Thread starter Gunslinger
- Start date
- Status
Mike Irwin
Staff
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monkeyleg:
Gunslinger, if cuffing the BG isn't a viable option for civilians, then what are we to do if we are faced with an unarmed but physically superior attacker and cannot run or get away? I suppose this boils down to the legal issue. No doubt you are correct that the presence of a gun will not stop every bad guy, so what are the options for the civilian?
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.[/quote]
Monkeyleg,
There are 3 things that you should always carry with you, at least in my manner of thinking...
1. Cell phone.
2. Pepper Spray.
3. Gun.
Those three things will cover just about EVERY eventuality a person with a CCW will ever come across.
We all can, of course, "what if" all night long...
"What if he's wearing body armor?"
"What if he's smaller than me?"
"What if he's walking on his hands?"
"What if he's an alien from a hyper-dimensional universe who is trying to probe me?"
Sad fact is, you can't cover every eventuality. So, instead of stocking up on tons of gear, you stock up on knowledge.
Learn how to avoid potentially dangerous situations.
Learn how to read situations.
Learn what constitutes a situation in which you can draw your gun.
Be aware of your surroundings.
Be aware of the people in your surroundings.
Be aware of ways to get the hell out of the area.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Gunslinger, if cuffing the BG isn't a viable option for civilians, then what are we to do if we are faced with an unarmed but physically superior attacker and cannot run or get away? I suppose this boils down to the legal issue. No doubt you are correct that the presence of a gun will not stop every bad guy, so what are the options for the civilian?
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.[/quote]
Monkeyleg,
There are 3 things that you should always carry with you, at least in my manner of thinking...
1. Cell phone.
2. Pepper Spray.
3. Gun.
Those three things will cover just about EVERY eventuality a person with a CCW will ever come across.
We all can, of course, "what if" all night long...
"What if he's wearing body armor?"
"What if he's smaller than me?"
"What if he's walking on his hands?"
"What if he's an alien from a hyper-dimensional universe who is trying to probe me?"
Sad fact is, you can't cover every eventuality. So, instead of stocking up on tons of gear, you stock up on knowledge.
Learn how to avoid potentially dangerous situations.
Learn how to read situations.
Learn what constitutes a situation in which you can draw your gun.
Be aware of your surroundings.
Be aware of the people in your surroundings.
Be aware of ways to get the hell out of the area.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Gunslinger
Moderator
I went back and read my post on this thread and no where did I give advise to anyone that they should carry restraints. In fact quite the contrary, in several instances I have stated I was wrong in viewing the issue from a trained LEO's perspective. I have even attempted to use humor to ad a bit of levity to a topic that should not create such controversy.
Mike, I am not advising you nor anyone else on this forum to buy, carry or use restraints. If you feel I have wronged you in some way I apologize. I am at a loss as to why you have taken any of this personally. However if you feel you must please limit any further personal attacks to Email.
gunscustom@aol.com
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Mike, I am not advising you nor anyone else on this forum to buy, carry or use restraints. If you feel I have wronged you in some way I apologize. I am at a loss as to why you have taken any of this personally. However if you feel you must please limit any further personal attacks to Email.
gunscustom@aol.com
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Mike Irwin
Staff
"But having something as a restraint beats struggling with the BG until the police arrive. Cuffing is never easy but it is far easier than a prolonged wrestling match with no means to end it."
"Perhaps it is the cop in me after having spent my entire career in that profession, but I prefer to at least have the means to restrain someone if needed.
There are any number of situations in which one cannot simply shoot the BG but in which he is not going to simply go away. If he is unarmed and wants to fight and not leave the means to restain him is a valuable tool."
Gunslinger,
The above are lifted from your previous posts. I took these statements, and still do, as advocacy for the carrying and use of restraints by non-LEOs.
If this is not what you intended, then I offer you my most sincere apology.
And, yes, my previous posting went over the line. I'm deleting it, and apologizing for it now.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
"Perhaps it is the cop in me after having spent my entire career in that profession, but I prefer to at least have the means to restrain someone if needed.
There are any number of situations in which one cannot simply shoot the BG but in which he is not going to simply go away. If he is unarmed and wants to fight and not leave the means to restain him is a valuable tool."
Gunslinger,
The above are lifted from your previous posts. I took these statements, and still do, as advocacy for the carrying and use of restraints by non-LEOs.
If this is not what you intended, then I offer you my most sincere apology.
And, yes, my previous posting went over the line. I'm deleting it, and apologizing for it now.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Gunslinger
Moderator
No hard feelings Mike and no offense taken or intended. I did in fact acknowledge I was wrong in suggesting that civilians attempt to use restraints. I can see from the post where one might easily assume that I was advocating their use. The thead did serve to demonstrate to me some of the differences in my perspectives and those of other members. I'll take it as a learning experience.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Mike Irwin
Staff
Gunslinger,
You and me.
Parking lot behind Hardees.
1 a.m.
No guns, no pepper spray, no cell phones.
--Mike
P.S. -- Oh, no handcuffs, either.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
You and me.
Parking lot behind Hardees.
1 a.m.
No guns, no pepper spray, no cell phones.
--Mike
P.S. -- Oh, no handcuffs, either.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Gunslinger,
In your scenerio, when the police arrive on the scene, just about anywhere in Ohio, Monkey Boy will be charged with a minor misdemeanor at the worst. For your use of restraints, you will be charged with kidnapping.( Note, I say charged as in criminal charges, not sued as some have misread above) MB will likely walk with a slap on the wrists, while you lose big time. As a non-leo, you have no authority to detain in non-felony situation. What you describe would hardly be a felony. You may be able to plead the kidnapping down to a misdemeanor battery or simple assualt with the right lawyer. Feel free to do as you feel fit, but please take into consideration that not all areas are the same. Even in the above situation, my 5'3" wife would recieve a different outcome than my 6'0 235lb self.
In your scenerio, when the police arrive on the scene, just about anywhere in Ohio, Monkey Boy will be charged with a minor misdemeanor at the worst. For your use of restraints, you will be charged with kidnapping.( Note, I say charged as in criminal charges, not sued as some have misread above) MB will likely walk with a slap on the wrists, while you lose big time. As a non-leo, you have no authority to detain in non-felony situation. What you describe would hardly be a felony. You may be able to plead the kidnapping down to a misdemeanor battery or simple assualt with the right lawyer. Feel free to do as you feel fit, but please take into consideration that not all areas are the same. Even in the above situation, my 5'3" wife would recieve a different outcome than my 6'0 235lb self.
The more I read this thread, the more I thanked God for giving me the good sense to become a Texan decades ago. Wow. All you have to do down here at night is cap him. During the day you have to be in fear of ...ETC, but I have know officers to keep asking "How did you feel just before you shot?" until the good guy remembers to say "I was in fear for my life". All this probably doesn't apply in the PRA (peoples republic of Austin) though, but it sure does in rural East Texas. I hope I never have to use my CHL, but if I do, no one is going to ask why I didn't restrain him.
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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
true story, a Union Gen. once said "Don't worry about those Rebs. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..SPLAT.
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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
true story, a Union Gen. once said "Don't worry about those Rebs. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..SPLAT.
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