Republicans v. Libertarians (OPTIONAL) #2

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, David, that's life: There are no guarantees, just indications. Bluesman, believe me, you do NOT want the Libertarian party to abandon it's stand on drug relegalization! We hold that position, as we hold the rest of our positions, as the logical consequence of a coherent political philosophy. We support your right to own guns for the same reason we support Cheech and Chong's right to get high: If it doesn't hurt anyone else, it's nobody else's business! If we ever gave up on drug relegalization, it would mean we'd abandoned that philosophy, and couldn't be trusted to defend gun ownership either.

That's the problem with the major parties, after all: The Democrats have principles, but don't dare admit to the public what they are, while the Republicans won't shut up about the principles they don't actually have. Spending a generation in the wilderness can purge you of weakness, but all it did to the GOP was purge them of anyone who had a higher value than getting back in power. Now their party leadership regards anyone who thinks there's ANYTHING at all more important than winning elections as a dangerous extremist, and works to defeat them. I've seen it at the national level, and here in Michigan; If a Republican actually has principles, the GOP leadership tries to purge them, even at the cost of their seat being taken by a Democrat.

 

[David Wright]

Well, that's life. Now I have been enlightened. Sounds like more "my way or the highway" mindset that has turned people off before, but, there it is. Like it or not, success in politics requires are certain amount of verbal and social finesse, regardless of the true issues. Play the game to win, or suffer the losses. That's political life!
Gee, even the communist Chinese have figured that out already. Some apparently, have not.

Same as it ever was.....

Do what you believe, that's your right, but I'll say it again. Many folks have been turned-off not neccessarily by Libertarian beliefs, but by the style and demeanor of many of their followers. Are you elevating the Libertarian cause, or shooting holes in their canoe?

As said before, I haven't met them all, but the ones I have met, paint a dissappointing picture of Libertarians. Libertarians don't have to give up their beliefs, but, seriously, their presentation is sorely lacking, IMHO. Nobody likes a bully, even when they're right. Am I right? The closest comparison I can recall, is when I politely ask tough questions to Dianetics followers. Wow. Talk about jabbing a stick in a bee's nest. They come undone every time. I'm more "clear" perhaps than they are. (inside joke for the Hubbard fans) If your cause and beliefs are truly correct and just, one doesn't have to beat up people that disagree. When folks typically do that, they are unsure of their beliefs.It's a dead giveaway.
Right?

Also, to reiterate my long, ad naseum battle long ago with longhair, I have been places where there is legal drug use, free needles, free this, free that and a plethora of goverment paid, on demand, drug rehabilitation, any time you want it. The addicts and their families are just as burdened, heartbroken, disenchanted etc., as they are here in the U.S., with our evil drug laws. Been there, seen that, over and over, first hand. Pardon my sarcasm, but, when I hear folks proposing things that I have seen will not work, I have to wonder where they are really coming from.

Please, enlighten me on where in the world the Libertarian's policy on drugs is REALLY working. Leave out the populist hyperbole, and, in simple declarative sentences, tell me exactly where it is working. I'll go check it out sometime in person, even if it is overseas. And, unlike some folks, if I'm wrong, I will glady concede, tell what I saw, and post it here. Nothing to lose for you. Right?

Experience counts. Everything else is reckless speculation and means nothing.
Right? Right.


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David H. Wright
Bring this man a
goat and a bowl of fruit

 

[Dennis]

David,
I DO have to chuckle - you're right! We DO get loud!

But after being told a couple million times that we must stick with the
Republicans so we get THEIR gun control rather than the Democrat's gun
control, it becomes frustrating. Yeah, and sometimes we overstate our
case. Problem is, when returning tit for tat with our vocal opponents, the
bystanders can become offended. And that's a shame.

Then when somebody says we need to “grow” before we can ask people
to vote for us, that strikes a bad chord. How do you grow without
growing? Honestly, some of the arguments against third parties are
more emotional than we are.

Okay. To your point. Nope, I can not confirm a single society that is
happily into drugs. Frankly, I've been too much into fighting gun control
to get involved in drugs (except, of course, for Shiner Bock!) so the
argument didn't interest me until I was forced into it.

I've been told that the Netherlands, or Holland, (whichever is correct) is
extremely liberal with drug use. People smoking grass and hash in public
(outside, of course) is supposedly very common. I have no idea about
other drug use there.

I have no references, so this is tentative info. Maybe someone else has
better dope on the subject. (yes, pun intended )

The point that convinced me, David, was the War on Drugs is NOT being
fought to win. Oh, the guys in the field bust their butts! You bet! But
the government is spending billions of taxpayer dollars in half-way
measures that simply are not working. The U.S. stops less than 15% of
all drugs coming into the country.

Then, when the government starts confiscating money “because you
have it”, they’ve gone too far against people who frequently are innocent.

I should be able to go to the bank and draw out ANY amount of money I
have on deposit. I should be able to drive my car legally anywhere
without being more afraid of the police than I am of robbers.

Now in my case, the point is moot. I don’t have enough money to attract
robbers OR the police. But having money (I am told) is not a crime.
Making theft, extortion, or robbery legal if it is done by the police, simply
isn’t right.

So, our War on Drugs isn’t working for us - it is working against us. It
should be stopped. Drug use should be attacked in a different manner.
Maybe we should let some sort of Sarah Brady demonize drugs instead of
guns! Hey, it worked for Mothers Against Drunk Driving!

The Open Borders question is not a question. The borders already are
open we just pretend they’re not.

Frankly, you’ve been nice enough to try to understand - you say you
have a greater problem with Libertarians’ presentation than their policies.
Thanks! I needed that!

So, let me tell you the problem that *I* have with the Libertarians.

Libertarians are against income tax of any kind and against a national
sales tax. They say that by reducing the size of the government we don’t
need them.

Well, I DO believe we will have a military! And there are legitimate
federal functions that must be paid for. Where are we going to get the
money for that?

So, yes. I also have my questions and problem with the Libertarians.
But the Democrats and Republicans have assumed so much
unconstitutional control that they will soon rule us with an iron fist!

And all our other questions won’t matter. The federal government will
tell us what policy is and we will have NO input.

Remember, the people in power currently select the candidates who run
for office. Thusly they ensure their future domination over us.

I truly feel the Republicans and Democrats MUST be voted out. And the
only viable party I see to do that, is the third largest political party in
America - the Libertarians.

((And I didn't raise my voice once, not at all. I'm so proud!! ))

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 06, 1999).]

 

[DC]

Start #3...this is 188K

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!