Fubsy,
You start out with a good, logical idea: Replace many of the liberal
Republicans with conservative Republicans. But then you break down....
1) By immediately saying, “Now I know at this point the liberformers are
saying, whats the difference between replacing the existing republicans
with conservative republicans or just replacing the existing congress with
liberformers....”
1a) You do yourself an injustice, as well as anyone who refuses to buy
the Republican Party line, by doing the “Now I know” bit.
First, you *don’t* know. Many of us have worked for years, even
decades, fighting FOR perceived conservatives within the Republican
Party. Most, now faded into history, were NOT conservative. They were
only saying “whatever it takes” to further their careers. But the
Republican party now has reached the point where a conservative only
stands a chance if and when there is no liberal available.
1b) Consider the RLC. It sounds great! Truly conservative Republicans,
wow! Then you find that they are Libertarians working within what they
consider a “viable” (in power) Party. Even Ron Paul, whom I admire, is
listed as a Republican. Hogwash! He ran for President as a Libertarian!
So, basically, the ONLY conservative Republicans ARE those who are
Libertarians.
1c) And while you keep telling me what I think, you miss a point I keep
trying to make. NO party is invulnerable. Not the Democrats. Not the
Republicans.
-------
2) A little Republican history. Look up the Republican Party in the
encyclopedia. (You’ll find it shortly after “reptiles”.) “Earlier U.S.
political parties had used the designation Republican in one way or
another, but differed from the modern Republican party in political
philosophy and in many other ways.”
2a) Thomas Jefferson and other opponents of the Federalists organized
(1791) a Republican party that under several names retained its identity
and continued its opposition to the Federalist party until after the
election (1824) of John Quincy Adams. At about that time Andrew
Jackson emerged as the leader of the Democratic party (the ancestor of
the present Democratic party) and the opposition, led by John Quincy
Adams and Henry Clay, called itself the Nation-Republican Party. In
1834, the National-Republicans joined with other political elements to
form the Whig Party and from 1854 or 1855 no significant (you would
say “viable”) party called itself Republican.
2b) The Modern Republican Party. At this time, slavery was not a party
issued but cut across party lines. In 1854, Congress passed the
Kansas-Nebraska Act which permitted these two territories to determine
their own stand on slavery. Northerners were enraged! Not morally,
however, they had planned that these areas would be slave-free “family
farms”. The small family farms could not compete with the large (Ivan
would call them “corporate”) slave farms. So the controversy was
economic rather than “moral”.
These Yankees, er, Northerners were so incensed over this economic
issue that they came together with others, some of them anti-slavery
supporters, to form the Republican Party. The slavery issue was used as
a “moral” issue to win support. (Rather like the way the current
Democrats emotionalize the gun control concept.)
2c) The Whigs lost out, replaced by Republicans. I see two points to
note:
- The Democrats and Federalists, who believe in an all-powerful,
ever-larger government *controlling* its subjects, have been around for
a long, long time. They are more powerful in America today than at any
time in our history because they have perverted and taken over the
system designed to protect citizens from their government.
- No political party is forever. The Republicans have been pretty well
absorbed into the Democratic Party. At least to an extent I abhor and
will no longer support out of “party loyalty”, “viability” or whatever.
That’s why, after nearly forty years as a Republican, I can no longer
support them. They have become too “Democratic” (the party).
2d) The Libertarians, new and not yet strong, provide a political party for
republicans (not the party, but for those who believe the government
serves the people instead of enslaving them). Eventually, the
Libertarians or some similar party must replace or at least effectively
oppose the Democrats and their Republican Auxiliary - or the Great
Experiment of a “servant government” will pass into history and we will
join the rest of the world as mere subjects (in this case of an oligarchy)
rather than as citizens of the world’s only free and “viable” republic.
(Excerpts taken from The American Peoples Encycylopedia)
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 04, 1999).]
You start out with a good, logical idea: Replace many of the liberal
Republicans with conservative Republicans. But then you break down....
1) By immediately saying, “Now I know at this point the liberformers are
saying, whats the difference between replacing the existing republicans
with conservative republicans or just replacing the existing congress with
liberformers....”
1a) You do yourself an injustice, as well as anyone who refuses to buy
the Republican Party line, by doing the “Now I know” bit.
First, you *don’t* know. Many of us have worked for years, even
decades, fighting FOR perceived conservatives within the Republican
Party. Most, now faded into history, were NOT conservative. They were
only saying “whatever it takes” to further their careers. But the
Republican party now has reached the point where a conservative only
stands a chance if and when there is no liberal available.
1b) Consider the RLC. It sounds great! Truly conservative Republicans,
wow! Then you find that they are Libertarians working within what they
consider a “viable” (in power) Party. Even Ron Paul, whom I admire, is
listed as a Republican. Hogwash! He ran for President as a Libertarian!
So, basically, the ONLY conservative Republicans ARE those who are
Libertarians.
1c) And while you keep telling me what I think, you miss a point I keep
trying to make. NO party is invulnerable. Not the Democrats. Not the
Republicans.
-------
2) A little Republican history. Look up the Republican Party in the
encyclopedia. (You’ll find it shortly after “reptiles”.) “Earlier U.S.
political parties had used the designation Republican in one way or
another, but differed from the modern Republican party in political
philosophy and in many other ways.”
2a) Thomas Jefferson and other opponents of the Federalists organized
(1791) a Republican party that under several names retained its identity
and continued its opposition to the Federalist party until after the
election (1824) of John Quincy Adams. At about that time Andrew
Jackson emerged as the leader of the Democratic party (the ancestor of
the present Democratic party) and the opposition, led by John Quincy
Adams and Henry Clay, called itself the Nation-Republican Party. In
1834, the National-Republicans joined with other political elements to
form the Whig Party and from 1854 or 1855 no significant (you would
say “viable”) party called itself Republican.
2b) The Modern Republican Party. At this time, slavery was not a party
issued but cut across party lines. In 1854, Congress passed the
Kansas-Nebraska Act which permitted these two territories to determine
their own stand on slavery. Northerners were enraged! Not morally,
however, they had planned that these areas would be slave-free “family
farms”. The small family farms could not compete with the large (Ivan
would call them “corporate”) slave farms. So the controversy was
economic rather than “moral”.
These Yankees, er, Northerners were so incensed over this economic
issue that they came together with others, some of them anti-slavery
supporters, to form the Republican Party. The slavery issue was used as
a “moral” issue to win support. (Rather like the way the current
Democrats emotionalize the gun control concept.)
2c) The Whigs lost out, replaced by Republicans. I see two points to
note:
- The Democrats and Federalists, who believe in an all-powerful,
ever-larger government *controlling* its subjects, have been around for
a long, long time. They are more powerful in America today than at any
time in our history because they have perverted and taken over the
system designed to protect citizens from their government.
- No political party is forever. The Republicans have been pretty well
absorbed into the Democratic Party. At least to an extent I abhor and
will no longer support out of “party loyalty”, “viability” or whatever.
That’s why, after nearly forty years as a Republican, I can no longer
support them. They have become too “Democratic” (the party).
2d) The Libertarians, new and not yet strong, provide a political party for
republicans (not the party, but for those who believe the government
serves the people instead of enslaving them). Eventually, the
Libertarians or some similar party must replace or at least effectively
oppose the Democrats and their Republican Auxiliary - or the Great
Experiment of a “servant government” will pass into history and we will
join the rest of the world as mere subjects (in this case of an oligarchy)
rather than as citizens of the world’s only free and “viable” republic.
(Excerpts taken from The American Peoples Encycylopedia)
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 04, 1999).]