Reports of "Militia Takeover" in Oregon

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Eickyrick: which protest was that? I remember people hanging from bridges in Portland and Seattle. I also remember several protestors of that type being arrested by the Coastguard in Puget Sound and by Portland Police.
But mostly I remember the protestors going home after a couple days.

What I don't remember is any of those protestors being armed and threatening violence.
 
What I don't remember is any of those protestors being armed and threatening violence.
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Thats the key. If they had gone off and occupied the office-other than annoying campers and birdwatchers no one would have cared. Showing up armed to the death and declaring you'll die (or more importantly kill) before being forced out of there is a completely separate ball of wax.
 
The guy made the decision to get shot. I don't think the first shot was when he hit the ground.

Now something is going on. The Bundy saga isn't the only BLM standoffs that's happened.

Right or wrong, they made the decision that they must stand in front of the tank.
Others have made that choice to stand in front of of the tank. Ferguson, Baltimore , Portland, Philadelphia and so on. If we aren't affected by what drove them to stand in front of the tank, then we just call them criminals and thugs, and demand action by the government. I guess the couldn't just ignore the latest shenanigans because they carried guns. If they didn't carry guns, would the outcome be different? It was just a bird watching site that was probably shut down till spring.
 
Buzz cook, that's the St. John's bridge in Portland, it lasted several days and law enforcement basically had to cut them down. Held up interstate commerce and international, kayakers also clogged the Columbia to help them out, many assaulted officers...(not the danglers)
as far as the birdwatching station, who knows what to believe anymore.
Is protesting while carrying a gun a crime? They were charged with conspiracy to obstruct officials and threats. But I haven't heard that they were charged with protesting while carrying a gun. But, the consensus is that protesting while Carrying is the reason to deprive life without due process. Not talking about the highway incident, but the time period before.
 
Is protesting while carrying a gun a crime?
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*Trespass is.
*Attempts at intimidation can be.
*Statements about killing people who try to remove them earn Zero empathy from anyone not involved in their aluminum foiled wrapped conspiracy. To the American people, you become a terrorist who should be treated like such.

Frankly they have been lucky the government didn't storm them completely to stop this from happening again, as its the same crew as the Bundy joke.
 
In actuality, the ROE are the same for the police is the same as for anyone else. Technically, they have to obey the same laws as you or I, but reality is that they seldom are held to the same standard.
 
"ROE" in your post is way off point….

Yes we are bound by the same laws as anyone……. However……

We are required to respond, when dispatched or observing, and bound to stay until the situation is resolved. It's that oath thing.

You can and should avoid the conflict, we don't have that choice.

And we don't get to walk away until the suspect is safely in custody.

Unfortunately sometimes a hand is forced and a life is lost or altered.

If we act outside of the law and/or policy then we should be held accountable and prosecuted by the same standard as any one else.
 
Why was the man was shot in the back by a cop that was also shooting directly toward his fellow officers? Had he missed or the bullet overpenetrated, his shot could have hit someone else. Poor training or was the cop trigger happy?

As someone said the video is useless without sound, or something, to follow the exact sequence of events, the natural response to being shot is to check the wound, also to stagger. Like I said, without audio or video from another angle, all we can do is speculate.

I'd also be interested in seeing what happened in the missing 4 minutes at he first part of the video, was the car fired upon causing the driver to flee? We can only speculate, the driver did back up for some reason, maybe to talk to someone?

There's always at least 2 sides to every story, let's wait and see what develops. The truth, and conclusions drawn from a bad video, could be very different.
 
The video isn't really good quality, but, before it was released, the story from the Bundy Bunch was that the white suburban had been fired into over 120?? times. The video squelched that story.
 
the consensus is that protesting while Carrying is the reason to deprive life without due process.
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I really don't think anyone here said that.

There have been legal protests while carrying guns that didn't result in violence. If you remember President Obama had armed protestors protest at his appearances.

The problem occurs when a protest is illegal and whether other crimes are involved.
In those situations a gun is an escalation that is recognized by the law. If you're breaking the law the odds are that the police will want to arrest you. If they want to arrest you and you're carrying a firearm, they will approach you with more caution than if you are not. If you are threatening violence and are armed they will be prepared to use deadly force.

What is due process in regards to making an arrest?
 
Why was the man was shot in the back by a cop that was also shooting directly toward his fellow officers?
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Because it looks like a taser, in the officer's left hand and as soon as the suspect went down, he put his right hand on his holster on right hip.
Also buzz cook, I'm really trying to reconcile with the attitude of the public, they don't care about anything but being on federal property with a gun in your holster.
 
I think the issue is that there are just a lot of folks who "just want to be ticked off" not really relevant to many of them what the facts are.

Some are not even sure who they really want to be ticked at.
 
Why would you taser a man that's just been shot or, conversely, why would you shoot a man that's just been tasered?
 
That takes us back to your question: why would an officer take a one-handed shot in the direction of his fellow officers while walking in the snow?

Probably simultaneously as the threat developed.
 
Sounds like the guy that was shot 41 times (some of the shots were in the bottom of his feet!) for reaching for his wallet.

We don't know what the guy was being ordered to do: Cop #1-Hands on your head!, Cop #2 Hands out to your side where we can see them! Cop #3 Turn around with your hands up! I've seen the "stand up, sit down, keep your hands where I can see 'em, let's see your ID", whatever, many times.
 
The tinfoil brigade is now claiming the 9mm in Finicum's pocket was planted after the fact, the serial number of the pistol was allegedly released by the FBI and reported stolen two years ago. And of course, being a rancher, he only carried sixguns.

So apparently video releases aren't going to quell the 'murdering goobermint' mantra.
 
Where are you getting your information from pnac? I watched the entire encounter from the tapes of the overhead aircraft. The SUV driven by the protester stopped in the road, waited about 4 minutes and then sped off. I saw no indication any shots were fired. As he was speeding down the road and after going through several slight curves he approached a roadblock at relatively high speed. As the SUV neared the roadblock, there appeared to be gunfire from the Law Enforcement Officers behind the roadblock. The SUV waited until about the last second and swerved off the side of the road. If there had not been a snowbank, he probably would of swung around the roadblock. The snowbank was too great of an obstacle and he could not navigate it. He got out of his vehicle with hands raised and then twice reached down for his pocket. He was shot. It did not appear from the air the other Law Enforcement Officer were in the line of fire.

He was not a law obeying citizen, he did not comply with Law Enforcement Instructions, he attempted to elude Law Enforcement, he threatened Law Enforcement by driving at a high rate of speed toward the roadblock, and he then once again did not comply with Law Enforcement by not keeping his hands raised and surrender. He again threatened Law Enforcement by reaching toward his pocket as to retrieve a weapon. It was obvious.

When are law violators going to learn that Law Enforcement has the responsibility to apprehend them? When are they going to learn they are at high risk if they do not comply and do not peacefully surrender?

We the taxpayers have had to shell out a huge amount of money to pay for this reckless unlawful act by this group of protestors.
 
Doesn't matter if he was shot once or 50 times, at the roadblock justification of shooting the suspects was there, no doubt about it. I'd be surprised if the total number of shots were low. I saw a couple shots hit vehicle and the snow during the flash-bangs.
So if he was shot 1,2,3, 41, or 120 times... It doesn't matter after you decide to run a roadblock.
 
Do any of you here completely understand the law as it applies to the application of deadly force? Look at some facts here. Were any of the officers under threat of death or serious bodily harm? No. There was never any weapon in Mr. Finicum's hand, never. If he had a knife, a baseball bat or any other thing that could be construed as a weapon and continued to advance then the shoot would be justified. The idea that a police officer can kill you because he thinks you are armed is a terrible precedent, and one that the law makes no allowance for. So they claim he had a 9mm pistol in his pocket; so what? I carry a 9mm in a holster just about everywhere I go. Does that give an officer the right to shoot me just because he thinks I am a threat? I certainly hope not. I have looked at this situation completely from an unbiased perspective. I have no horses in this race. The entire situation was one of sheer stupidity on all parts.
 
Sheer stupidity on all parts may be correct, but make multiple videos and media posts and statements about dying for your cause, whatever that may be, then flee a lawful arrest, nearly strike an LEO with your vehicle, refuse to heed LEO commands, and make hand movements that any reasonable person can construe as reaching for a concealed weapon, don't be surprised when you get shot.

Finicum did not get shot because law enforcement merely 'thought' he was a threat. He did everything he could to force a violent confrontation.

How many times have we seen on this forum the advice to not be in display of your firearm when the police show up after a self-defense shooting? That advice certainly is even more valid if you are a fleeing felon, do not make any movements or gestures than can be interpreted as attempting to draw a concealed weapon, even if you don't have one.
 
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