CPTMurdoc30
New member
Really AGAIN with this.
Remington 700 rifle
- Thread starter KBP75
- Start date
tahunua001
New member
I agree
this is way too emotional. ok bullet points
1. any gun can fail.
2. tv says that some of these guns have failed.
3. people have died from these failures.
4. more people die every year from cleaning a loaded gun than from mechanical failures.
5. there are millions of 700s that have not failed.
6. scream, yell, cuss, blankity blank blank and remington can go blank themselves, blank blankity dead kids blank blank blank
7. this situation will be talked about as long as a pre 80s 700 is in the hands of a hunter/owner/collector.
hope this sums it all up in a nutshell, let me know if I forgot something.
this is way too emotional. ok bullet points
1. any gun can fail.
2. tv says that some of these guns have failed.
3. people have died from these failures.
4. more people die every year from cleaning a loaded gun than from mechanical failures.
5. there are millions of 700s that have not failed.
6. scream, yell, cuss, blankity blank blank and remington can go blank themselves, blank blankity dead kids blank blank blank
7. this situation will be talked about as long as a pre 80s 700 is in the hands of a hunter/owner/collector.
hope this sums it all up in a nutshell, let me know if I forgot something.
you forgot to point out that in the minds of at least 30% of the people who have held a gun in the first place, remington is just trash, and this is just proof positive that it is a useless company that makes trash products that shouldn't even be recycled after being seized, they should be buried in unhallowed ground inside the city of the damned.
people can insult my remingtons. They can also insult my dodge truck and my toyota car. They can call my s&w a ****, and my colt a dog, and so forth.
The opinions of the masses mean no more to me than the noise the old blind schauzer makes in the yard down the block.
When I hear a well thought out and reasoned statement, well, gee, I listen. It's an unfortunate fact that I don't have to listen very often.
people can insult my remingtons. They can also insult my dodge truck and my toyota car. They can call my s&w a ****, and my colt a dog, and so forth.
The opinions of the masses mean no more to me than the noise the old blind schauzer makes in the yard down the block.
When I hear a well thought out and reasoned statement, well, gee, I listen. It's an unfortunate fact that I don't have to listen very often.
tahunua001
New member
I'm pretty much the sme way. I love my DPMS and model1 AR15s and despite some issues with my WASR10/63 I still like it. I started my days with a 700 and I will probably end them with that same gun
Sweet Shooter
New member
Sounds rather morbid. Should we talk about this?
-SS-
All I know is that I took my 700 .30 06 out this morning to sight in a new scope, and it was overlapping shots at 100 yards within 8 rounds fired. It only fired when I pulled the trigger, and the safety worked just fine. I wouldn't trade it for another rifle by any manufacturer...
CPTMurdoc30
New member
My 700 is being buried with me. That is how much I love that gun.
tahunua001
New member
nope
scwhitetail
New member
http://www.remington700.tv/#
That is Remington response to CNBC Remington Under Fire.
BTW, the CNBC special was supposedly created by a group of anti-gun activists, who thought "taking down" Remington, one of the nations biggest gunmakers, would impact the amount of firearms sold. They would then use the same tactic to destroy the other gunmakers. Personally, I think that the the Remington trigger myth, is just that, a myth. The condition of the guns that discharged was horrible. The trigger assemblies were rusted out, and most of them had been adjusted either below factory spec, or incorrectly by honing the sear, or tampering with the sear adjustment screw. Remington specifically prohibits the adjustment of the screw. That's why it has a way bigger blob glue over the sear screw than the pull weight or backlash screws. Plus, all of the guns that misfired, were handled incorrectly.
That is Remington response to CNBC Remington Under Fire.
BTW, the CNBC special was supposedly created by a group of anti-gun activists, who thought "taking down" Remington, one of the nations biggest gunmakers, would impact the amount of firearms sold. They would then use the same tactic to destroy the other gunmakers. Personally, I think that the the Remington trigger myth, is just that, a myth. The condition of the guns that discharged was horrible. The trigger assemblies were rusted out, and most of them had been adjusted either below factory spec, or incorrectly by honing the sear, or tampering with the sear adjustment screw. Remington specifically prohibits the adjustment of the screw. That's why it has a way bigger blob glue over the sear screw than the pull weight or backlash screws. Plus, all of the guns that misfired, were handled incorrectly.
Let’s take a look at some of the objections:
"It’s an anti-gun conspiracy / CNBC is biased."
Yes, CNBC is biased, and their story contains slanted perspectives and misleading information. What did you expect? However, just because the presentation is biased doesn’t necessarily mean that the core issue isn’t true.
"It must be caused by people fiddling with their trigger adjustments."
No doubt some of the problems are indeed due to improper adjustments. However there are lots of rifles that have adjustable triggers that don’t have anywhere near as many complaints. Something else is going on.
So let's take a look at what it is:
Here's the Remington 700 trigger cocked:
The Remington 700 trigger is a bit unusual in that it uses an extra piece, the trigger connector, to refine the trigger pull. The tiny red area is the engagement between the connector and the sear.
When the trigger is pulled, the connector goes forward and returns to this position:
For this trigger to operate safely it is essential that when the rifle is cocked the trigger connector return 100% to the proper position, pushed there by only the light weight trigger spring.
See the red area between the trigger shoe and the trigger connector when the rifle is uncocked? That's the problem area. Any tiny speck of dirt, rust, ice or other material that gets in there will prevent the connector from engaging the sear properly. This can result in the safety keeping the sear from falling instead of the trigger connector. When the safety is released, the gun fires.
With all this in mind, let's take a look at a couple more objections:
“I’ve owned a Remington 700 for forty years and fired thousands of rounds and never had a problem.”
Good for you. This problem doesn’t happen very often, simply because it’s fairly difficult for stuff to work its way into the proper area of the trigger. But this is not a question of a few defective guns; it’s a design weakness that could affect any of the millions of guns with this trigger. If you haven’t had a problem, it’s because nothing has worked its way into your trigger.
Yet.
"This only happens on dirty or neglected guns."
This is more likely to happen on a dirty or neglected gun. However, a grass seed or a bit of pine needle could make this happen on an otherwise pristine gun.
"No one would have been hurt if they followed The Rules of Gun Safety."
True enough. You should always treat your gun as though it could go off at any moment. That doesn't excuse making a rifle that actually does it.
"It’s an anti-gun conspiracy / CNBC is biased."
Yes, CNBC is biased, and their story contains slanted perspectives and misleading information. What did you expect? However, just because the presentation is biased doesn’t necessarily mean that the core issue isn’t true.
"It must be caused by people fiddling with their trigger adjustments."
No doubt some of the problems are indeed due to improper adjustments. However there are lots of rifles that have adjustable triggers that don’t have anywhere near as many complaints. Something else is going on.
So let's take a look at what it is:
Here's the Remington 700 trigger cocked:
The Remington 700 trigger is a bit unusual in that it uses an extra piece, the trigger connector, to refine the trigger pull. The tiny red area is the engagement between the connector and the sear.
When the trigger is pulled, the connector goes forward and returns to this position:
For this trigger to operate safely it is essential that when the rifle is cocked the trigger connector return 100% to the proper position, pushed there by only the light weight trigger spring.
See the red area between the trigger shoe and the trigger connector when the rifle is uncocked? That's the problem area. Any tiny speck of dirt, rust, ice or other material that gets in there will prevent the connector from engaging the sear properly. This can result in the safety keeping the sear from falling instead of the trigger connector. When the safety is released, the gun fires.
With all this in mind, let's take a look at a couple more objections:
“I’ve owned a Remington 700 for forty years and fired thousands of rounds and never had a problem.”
Good for you. This problem doesn’t happen very often, simply because it’s fairly difficult for stuff to work its way into the proper area of the trigger. But this is not a question of a few defective guns; it’s a design weakness that could affect any of the millions of guns with this trigger. If you haven’t had a problem, it’s because nothing has worked its way into your trigger.
Yet.
"This only happens on dirty or neglected guns."
This is more likely to happen on a dirty or neglected gun. However, a grass seed or a bit of pine needle could make this happen on an otherwise pristine gun.
"No one would have been hurt if they followed The Rules of Gun Safety."
True enough. You should always treat your gun as though it could go off at any moment. That doesn't excuse making a rifle that actually does it.
Walklightly
Moderator
November 26, 2010, 02:45 PM
What wrong with this picture?
Are people STILL being duped by CNBC's HIGHLY subjective report on the Remington 700? 
Remington's website (700 Network) and Youtube video series debunk the "Remington Under Fire" report, point by point. Before anyone gets too upset after watching MSNBC's "Remington Under Fire", you should watch the other half of the story, the half built on facts, not shoddy and subjective reporting. Watch Remington's point by point response on Youtube or on their website (link is below). It seperates the hard facts from emotionaly charged fiction. http://www.remington700.tv/#
Chevy, Ford, Lockheed Martin, Colt, Winchester, S&W, BMW, Toyota, and yes, even REMINGTON, all have the occassional defective products. It happens. The Remington 700 is a strong, reliable, well built gun. If the ammo ends up accidently overloaded with powder, or the case ruptures, Remington's famous 3 rings of steel can and will stop any potential injury. Most if not ALL of those defective rifles in the emotionaly charged CNBC report had their trigger systems tampered with, or were rusted and full of crud and had been altered outside of the factory. Any rifle, if abused or "tuned" (altered) by a wanna-be gunsmith, outside of factory specs, by a non-qualified individual, can be a potential safety hazard. And what about muzzle control... remember rule #1? If you accidently bump the trigger when closing the bolt (which is VERY easy to do, and very few, if ANY admit it when it happens), the muzzle should be pointed ... where???? And when it goes "BANG" when it wasn't supposed to, it appears many who bumped the trigger, instead of owning it, blame the gun. Its always easier to shift the blame to a "defective part" and lodge a lawsuit than to own it. Remember the mysterious Toyota "accelerating gas pedel"? When the facts came out, it was all BS.
And about the crap CNBC mentioned, and previously repeated in this thread by others
rolleyes, about rust, derbis, etc. getting lodged in that gap between the trigger and trigger connector that allows the trigger to be "tricked"? ... The CNBC "expert" (who it turns out makes a living testifying in court against lots of gun makers), said himself under oath that it would be next to impossible to duplicate and he has never seen a Remington in that condition, but he did know of individuals accidently firing the gun when they closed the bolt and touched the trigger!!!
CAT scans of alleged "defective" 700's showed, without a doubt, NO DERBIS BETWEEN THE TRIGGER AND CONNECTOR! Nothing! There are 2 sides to this story, and CNBC did their best to play on the viewers emotions by only depicting 1 side of the story and Court cases. If I ran Remington, I would strongly be considering litigation against CNBC and the reporter for slander and defamation.
Let me put it this way, if that reporter was a Police detective conducting an investigation and building a criminal case, he would end up in court, on the stand, and be quickly discredited and would lose his badge and job and be open to both a civil lawsuit and prosecution. You don't present half the facts in Court and hide evidence in order to make your case. The scales of Justice swing both ways.
I have no reservations about buying a new Remington 700. I'm looking at getting a new .270, and a "Made in the USA" Remington is at the top of my list. If you consider the sheer volume of model 700's that have been produced since 1962, over 5 MILLION (!!!) and thats not counting the number of previous models (721's and 722's), I'm guessing that Remington still has a better reliability / customer satisfaction than most other gun makers out there combined.
My Grandfather's 1949 model 721 .270, after thousands of rounds and some pretty rough treatment along the way, is still going strong and taking deer with deadly accuracy and a SUPER crisp trigger... 62 years after it was bought. So yes, a newer version of Mr. Walker's rifle, a made in the USA rifle, is in my future, with no reservations or 2nd thoughts...
Again, check out the facts, the TRUTH; http://www.remington700.tv/#
Be objective and listen to both sides before you jump on the CNBC bandwagon and start posting Anti-Remington BS, or not buying one of the strongest, most accurate rifles ever made on American soil. Remington is a big target for lawyers and the media (who are for the most part, Anti-gun), who know the general public, including many gun owners (and obviously some FiringLine members), will buy their line of BS. And no, I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't work for Remington or own any stock in the Company. I just can't stand subjective and twisted, anti-gun reporting.
Remington's website (700 Network) and Youtube video series debunk the "Remington Under Fire" report, point by point. Before anyone gets too upset after watching MSNBC's "Remington Under Fire", you should watch the other half of the story, the half built on facts, not shoddy and subjective reporting. Watch Remington's point by point response on Youtube or on their website (link is below). It seperates the hard facts from emotionaly charged fiction. http://www.remington700.tv/#Chevy, Ford, Lockheed Martin, Colt, Winchester, S&W, BMW, Toyota, and yes, even REMINGTON, all have the occassional defective products. It happens. The Remington 700 is a strong, reliable, well built gun. If the ammo ends up accidently overloaded with powder, or the case ruptures, Remington's famous 3 rings of steel can and will stop any potential injury. Most if not ALL of those defective rifles in the emotionaly charged CNBC report had their trigger systems tampered with, or were rusted and full of crud and had been altered outside of the factory. Any rifle, if abused or "tuned" (altered) by a wanna-be gunsmith, outside of factory specs, by a non-qualified individual, can be a potential safety hazard. And what about muzzle control... remember rule #1? If you accidently bump the trigger when closing the bolt (which is VERY easy to do, and very few, if ANY admit it when it happens), the muzzle should be pointed ... where???? And when it goes "BANG" when it wasn't supposed to, it appears many who bumped the trigger, instead of owning it, blame the gun. Its always easier to shift the blame to a "defective part" and lodge a lawsuit than to own it. Remember the mysterious Toyota "accelerating gas pedel"? When the facts came out, it was all BS.
And about the crap CNBC mentioned, and previously repeated in this thread by others
rolleyes, about rust, derbis, etc. getting lodged in that gap between the trigger and trigger connector that allows the trigger to be "tricked"? ... The CNBC "expert" (who it turns out makes a living testifying in court against lots of gun makers), said himself under oath that it would be next to impossible to duplicate and he has never seen a Remington in that condition, but he did know of individuals accidently firing the gun when they closed the bolt and touched the trigger!!! CAT scans of alleged "defective" 700's showed, without a doubt, NO DERBIS BETWEEN THE TRIGGER AND CONNECTOR! Nothing! There are 2 sides to this story, and CNBC did their best to play on the viewers emotions by only depicting 1 side of the story and Court cases. If I ran Remington, I would strongly be considering litigation against CNBC and the reporter for slander and defamation.
Let me put it this way, if that reporter was a Police detective conducting an investigation and building a criminal case, he would end up in court, on the stand, and be quickly discredited and would lose his badge and job and be open to both a civil lawsuit and prosecution. You don't present half the facts in Court and hide evidence in order to make your case. The scales of Justice swing both ways.
I have no reservations about buying a new Remington 700. I'm looking at getting a new .270, and a "Made in the USA" Remington is at the top of my list. If you consider the sheer volume of model 700's that have been produced since 1962, over 5 MILLION (!!!) and thats not counting the number of previous models (721's and 722's), I'm guessing that Remington still has a better reliability / customer satisfaction than most other gun makers out there combined.
My Grandfather's 1949 model 721 .270, after thousands of rounds and some pretty rough treatment along the way, is still going strong and taking deer with deadly accuracy and a SUPER crisp trigger... 62 years after it was bought. So yes, a newer version of Mr. Walker's rifle, a made in the USA rifle, is in my future, with no reservations or 2nd thoughts...
Again, check out the facts, the TRUTH; http://www.remington700.tv/#
Be objective and listen to both sides before you jump on the CNBC bandwagon and start posting Anti-Remington BS, or not buying one of the strongest, most accurate rifles ever made on American soil. Remington is a big target for lawyers and the media (who are for the most part, Anti-gun), who know the general public, including many gun owners (and obviously some FiringLine members), will buy their line of BS. And no, I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't work for Remington or own any stock in the Company. I just can't stand subjective and twisted, anti-gun reporting.
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Sweet Shooter
New member
@ Walklightly
Nice one! How on earth did you spot that?
-SS-
Nice one! How on earth did you spot that?
-SS-
.300 Weatherby Mag
New member
I have a recent production 700 that was factory equipped with a Walker trigger that did weird things... It would go off when you didn't want it too... None of my other 700s have ever done anything like this... I sent the gun to Remington and they replaced the trigger with an X-Mark and then tried to charge me for it.. I told them to shove it and they backed down and charged me nothing... I'm glad I didn't pay anything for the X-Mark they retrofitted is a horrible trigger...
I'm not saying that MSNBC is right on all counts... But there are problems with some of the triggers in these guns.. I'm not worried about the Walker triggers in my other guns but they do send out a lemon and I was lucky enough to get one.....
I'm not saying that MSNBC is right on all counts... But there are problems with some of the triggers in these guns.. I'm not worried about the Walker triggers in my other guns but they do send out a lemon and I was lucky enough to get one.....
Walklightly
Moderator
Sometimes I see people asking easy to find out questions, or something goofy, and I check there statistice's, it took about a minute.
Almost a troll check.
I just hate to see poeple waste others, and my time putting an effort to answer with good intent.Walklightly.... good work! However I don't think it is a waste of time to answer the OP's question though, as countless others who are researching the issue as they question what CNBC reported will read the thread and learn the truth. http://www.remington700.tv/#
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